Opinions; Is it a violation

[Tiapan]

Re: Opinions; Is it a violation

the main point i was trying to make is that until it can be proven that we, as a government, are focused just on destroying terrorist and those that immediately support them (as in say removing key people that fund and not messing with the garbage commisioner of say iran) then we are not justified. should they be stopped, yes, and we have the means, but not necesarrily the balls. instead of starting a war. we could have just killed sadamn without a war and let them sort it out. if we knew the next leader was committing horrible crimes we could remove him as well. all of the training camps that preach to kill westerners, we could go in with special ops and remove permanently all of the "instructors" . I look at Terrorist like a Tick. You can remove the body many times over (which is what we are doing) and never gead the head, so it buries deeper and deeper. The Iranian minister or whatever he is, doesnt do anything. we need to hunt down the Terror trainers, and then those that directly fund them, and remove them. of course he countries that the camps are in we arent at war with. but terrorists dont care about national boundaries so why should we. But it could be done quietly, (by the way are there any Tom CLancy fans here im a huge one) anywho i dont know why all the little Saudi princes that fund stuff get away clean cus we are "friendly" with that nation. or maybe they are just too good at hiding the paper trail.

[Darbex]

Re: Opinions; Is it a violation

I love a good debate. All I have to say is I used to be a hawk conservative. I still consider myself a conservative because it currently poses much of my beliefs but i am less a hawk and more of an isolationist to the extent that we need to remove our troops from places where anyone talks bad about America. We should tell those countries ok you dont like us defend yourself. I am tired of Americans being bad mouthed by other people but then we are expected to supply defense for every country. This trend has started ever since about the 70's and is just disrespectful for what we have done in this world. Granted the US probably messed up in some aspects but we are all human it happens. It is a damned if we do and damned if we dont. So I am in favor of the damned if we dont now. To allow that racist in Iran to come here to ground zero is a slap in the face of every good American.

[Darbex]

Re: Opinions; Is it a violation

During the 90's we are no longer able to simply take out heads of state. The president made sure of that making an executive order i believe to change what the CIA could do on that front.

[Tiapan]

Re: Opinions; Is it a violation

then there is the counter argument. if you can go kill a group of people because they are preaching violence towards you, that would mean i should go kill a KKK member for teaching hate to his kids, or if i believe abortion is murder (dont get started on that just using it as an example) then I should be in CHina and killing their doctors that are FORCING that on unplanned children. If you kill someone for what they believe and not just because of their actions then you are not better then them. the reasons they dont like us are too long to list. and a good portion was/is caused by our own actions in the region. the other is because religion is a great tool through which to gain power. many leaders there care not at all except for the power it gains them. But the truth is there will never be a total stop to this WAR ON TERROR. because there is no way to completely erradicate those groups. there will always be new ones.

[Tiapan]

Re: Opinions; Is it a violation

ok responses 1. yes we should leave those places we are unwanted, we should not be world police force.
2. yeah i know the legal complications but since when has that stopped a government. it could be an accident gas pipe explosion/or a hidden ammo dump going up what a pity.

But my suggestions are to become independent of relying on anyone for anything. whether its China for cheaper dog food, or the middle east for Oil. and to do that AMericans need to become less wasteful of a great many things. and Illegal immigration is not a good thing, at least not at the rate that its happening, you cant stop it all, but the problem isnt so much the immigration its that the people dont want to change and adapt to our culture or language, they prefer for us to adapt to them. sorry but im only second generation on my mothers side (legal, which was easier back then as well) I am born and raised here and am very proud to be a Texan, and an American, but i do understand that we can make mistakes too. part of the reason that it is soo bad with illegal immigrants is that it doesnt make sense to do it legally when its so easy to do the wrong way. yes crack down on illegal but it should be a bit easier to come across legally as well. this country would not be what it is now without immigrants, in fact almost none of us here are true natives (i am a little, have cherokee on my dad's side, which has been here since colonial so im an interesting mix)

[Tiapan]

Re: Opinions; Is it a violation

sorry about the extended rant, just trying to put some of the actions in a different view. and please dont hate me if you disagree, i dont hate or dislike any of you , even if i dont happen to like ur opinions. maybe we should have fishbox start a country

[jklntx]

Re: Opinions; Is it a violation

We need, by some logic presented here, to conduct a World War to eliminate any ideology that is contrary to our own.

I dont think that is in our or anyones best interests. Our leaders and ourselves like to justify our actions by stretching the parameters of responsibility as far as we can....but by following that reasoning it will eventually land at own own feet. And that is a fuel to this zealot ideaology.

To think that 1 country out of many should be the major focus to defeat this ideology and then do so without legitimate reasons (oh sorry, he killed his own people.. yet how many leaders of the World have we turned a cheek to while they did the same?...thats our idiotology)  is ludicrous.

Ideology with a bent on indiscriminate destruction is vile and threatens the framework of our World...not just the US. That needs to be the focus.
If we are to have a World War...zealot ideology should be the focus.

Fighting it through conventional military means is wasteful and archaic.  Rather the use of world wide  intelligent agencies working in tandem with each countries special forces will be able to eradicate this threat. But it requires the US to get off their high horse and be part of the team rather than selfappointing itself judge jury and executioner and expecting everyone else to follow our line.

[jklntx]

Re: Opinions; Is it a violation

I wrote:

"We need, by some logic presented here, to conduct a World War to eliminate any ideology that is contrary to our own.

I dont think that is in our or anyones best interests. Our leaders and ourselves like to justify our actions by stretching the parameters of responsibility as far as we can....but by following that reasoning it will eventually land at own own feet. And that is a fuel to this zealot ideaology. "

then

"If we are to have a World War...zealot ideology should be the focus."

A contrary in terms to say the least. It is apparent I DO believe there is a need for a World War....but not in the conventional means.

Just clarifying  

[geoff_tropheus]

Re: Opinions; Is it a violation

I agree that there should be a World War against the Zealot Idiology, just as the Second World War was against Facism.

The problem is what you stated exactly, we feel like we have got to do something, because no one else will join us.

Lets do something about it by protecting our borders and commerce first.

Work together at a World level, and then boom hit them in the balls.

Too bad, this will never happen as long as the US 100% supports Israel on all fronts, and completely ignores the overtures of Western Allies to regroup, rethink what is happening.

You would think with the recent comments made by Al-Qeda concerning taking the Jihad to the Iberian Pennisula back for Islam, that Spain and France would be a little more helpful.

David, I most certainly hope that the neo-nazi bull**** you were slinging earlier was not directed to me.  If so, you got me 100% wrong.

[PhishPhreek]

Re: Opinions; Is it a violation

Well, how do you punish someone who is willing to die for what they believe in ?  
How can you remove the promise of a hero's reward in the afterlive ?

What ever happened to walk softly & cary a big stick ?
We know who they were.  We know where their friends & family live.
And we have plenty of big ol convential bombs just collecting dust.

Then He wouldn't have to travel so far to place the wreaths and
their remaining neighbors wouldn't be in a hury to become Heros.