Keeping Church and State Seperate...

[myjohnson]

There are so many that complain so much about the U.S. But would they actually take it to the next step and move out of the country?

Exactly!

And most don't even vote!

They just complain.

[myjohnson]

Im not liking it at all...its the only interesting thing to do on here. It has pulled us all away from REAL fish conversations. Im joining in on it cause it is the only threads that are interesting and active.

So you don't like it b/c is interesting and active?

[sunrise]

Otherwise most of us here would have been jailed, stoned, or some other form of execution by now.

By family or the public? I was dropped kicked out of the house and disowned at 16. Never looked back!

[geoff_tropheus]

I really dont know, but I guess it could be both public and family that can stone you, or some other execution or dismemberment.

Some people just never get it?

[geoff_tropheus]

Some people unfortunately never learn how precious love and time really are the inner peace.

[sunrise]

I really dont know, but I guess it could be both public and family that can stone you, or some other execution or dismemberment.

Some people just never get it?

HardHeads

[CichlidFan]

Not everyone has the abilities or desire to learn what is needed to know these things.....

CF

[FrontosaurusRex]

[QUOTE=Mzungu;474160]Okay. 2 things. Risky, but don't care. )

Please, stop saying "your" Bible. There's 1 Bible. Sorry. Whether you accept it or not, it's still there. That's like saying, "In YOUR Grapes of Wrath...In YOUR War and Peace..." Different translations, yes. All trying to get the same literary meaning out of one book, yes.QUOTE]

But it is YOUR bible. Its not mine. I dont recognize it as truth. There are several bibles by the way. The Jews have the Torah, the Hindu have the Arya Sathya Vedam and Satanists have The Satanic Bible. None of those are MY bible either.

The reason I dont move, is because this is where I live. While I will openly say that this country disgusts me, it is a million times better than most others. I feel like I'm being attacked in a very passive aggressive way from the Christians on this site. I never once said that you guys were wrong or that you were crazy for following your religion. Every time I open my mouth about how I feel on the subject, you guys are trying to justify your beliefs. That right there shows me that you dont fully understand or believe in your bible either.

[FrontosaurusRex]

Randall, how was anything I said wrong? It came straight from your bible. If you make me sit here all night and look up the exact quotes, i'm gonna be pissed. I have way too many others things to do with my time that sit and thumb through the fiction section. LOL. That was a cheap shot....sorry.

[ImaGuyGeek]

First of all, I've always shown you and Traci nothing but respect so please dont attempt to downplay my intelligence because I didnt go to college or because I watch television. I was unaware that you graduated from Harvard....
I never said that ALL of our founding fathers were horrible people. I said that alot of them were. That is undisputable. We had slave owning, women beating, fornicators that ran this country and to this day, not much has changed. We have Presidents that cheat on their wives (all while being sworn in with your bible), we have presidents that over indulge in drugs (all while sworn in...) and we have Presidents that send innocent people to other countries to murder other innocent people (oh yeah, all while being sworn in by your bible). I cant stand when people, not you in particular, stand up and pound their chests at how wonderful our country is. Our country, our government, our president, our people are corrupt. They lie to our faces every single day about whats REALLY going on in the world.
The fact of the matter is, we need to change some things that maybe our founding fathers didnt take into account. We need to understand that there other religions besides Christianity (whether its Catholic, Baptist, etc) and we need to make accomodations for those people. No more "...under God" in the pledge of alegiance and no more "...in God we trust" on our money.

Dude, I didn't intend to attack you in any way. My comment was more of an indictment of the crap revisionist history the public schools and most universities pass off as factual and historical.

A couple historical points of fact. Not all of our Founding Fathers were wealthy. Not all of our Founding Fathers were slave owners. Our current form of Government in NO WAY even resembles what our Founding Fathers created. Their documents and Government architecture was "Limited Government" "For the People, of the People" as well as "Individual Responsibility". These Founding Fathers were truely great men of character but yes "men". Many of them gave their lives, lost loved ones and gave all their possessions and wealth so you and I would have the freedom to have these conversations.

I have lived in other countries where you will go to jail for talking about politics. We are blessed to have the freedoms we do and it is because of the Founding Fathers and NOBODY in this country should forget that.

[sunrise]

FrontosaurusRex,

Have you visited a third world country before?

sunrise

[myjohnson]

I pray in public school.

[ImaGuyGeek]

If there is no "Separation of church and state" there certainly should be because "my" church and "your" church might not be the same.

There is no "If". There is NO separation of Church and State in the US Constitution, Bill of Rights or Declaration of Independence. Please feel free to read and search for yourself.


US Constitution

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html

Bill Of Rights

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_bor.html

US Declaration of Independence

http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/

The concept of the "Separation of Church and State" was derived from personal letters between Jefferson and the Danbury Baptists.

And though I agree that Jefferson did some tremendous things he was still a slave owner.

Yes, this is a completely factual statement. He did in fact own slaves before he freed them.

By today's standards Benjamin Franklin (another of our Founding Fathers) was sold into slavery at the age of 12 when he was forced to take an apprenticeship at a print shop. Back then an apprenticeship was being forced to work for free for an agreed upon period of time with the threat of conviction for breaking a contract between 2 other parties if the apprenticeship is not completed.

The point is this. As society changes, so do the rules of what is legally and socially acceptable. It seems unreasonable to me to discount all the great things our Founding Fathers did by judging them by todays standards.

[Nickintex]

Not a rude question...I promise. But how to Gays still consider themselves Christian??? Im not saying that they are wrong or right...thats not my decision. But when I read the Bible it is Leviticus 18:22, which reads: "You shall not lie with a man as one lies with a woman, it is an abomination". Clearly the words of the Bible are not those of acceptance. I personally am not one to judge somebody on their CHOICE, I have many gay friends, but I have just never asked how some still pronounce themselves a Christian.

For the record, I never CHOSE to be gay, it just is. I was never like I was hetero first, then wondered what it would be like to be homo. Growing up, I knew what I was attracted to, but everyone said it was wrong. In high school it was a heavily guarded secret of mine until I nearly took my own life over it. Why did I slash my wrists at 18 and try to od on my mom's sleeping pills? I did not want to be that "fag" that everyone hated and that was condemned to a life of misery. I was taught how wrong it was by the media and Catholic Church to have thoughts I had no control over. I sought counseling. At the time, I thought a professional could help me turn straight. My counselor, helped me realize that self loathing and destruction was not the way. I learned that self acceptance was healthier mentally, and if my friends could not accept me for who I am, then are they really my friends in the first place?
On a separate note, I consider myself Agnostic, and I am fine with it. I have always had an interest in life sciences, especially with the fossil records. My CDD classes (the courses you have to take in Catholic Church for all the sacraments) kept telling me NOT to believe it, and that there were no such things as dinosaurs, mammoths and cave people, etc, but I could not be persuaded as such. Also, having gone to a high school with a mostly Jewish population exposed me to other ideologies, so for me as an individual, I cannot view one single religion as the "right" one for me. What I did observe, was religion, which is supposed to be a set of rules to help you be a loving caring individual, being used as an excuse to hate and judge others. In sum, I am an Agnostic, but I am not an Atheist. I am fine with that.

[Nickintex]

a gay person cant be truely sorry for it if they do it everyday of their lives. I know this is a touchy subject, but as a casual question I just never brought it up for fear of losing some friends of mine.

I am not sorry for accepting myself for who I am.