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Please issue a welfare card to me so that I may play poker at the casino.....

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  • Please issue a welfare card to me so that I may play poker at the casino.....

    to earn my retirement nest egg on the taxpayer's back. It is the only way for me to retire! What does one think about welfare card cash withdrawal at the casino? What other states allow this?



    In print:

    latimes.com/news/local/la-me-welfare-casinos-20100624,0,6190326.story
    latimes.com

    California welfare cards can be used in many casino ATMs

    Times review finds that in more than half of the state's casinos and gaming rooms, welfare recipients can get cash from state-issued EBT cards. Officials say they're moving to block such transactions.

    By Jack Dolan, Los Angeles Times
    June 24, 2010
    Reporting from Sacramento

    California welfare recipients are able to use state-issued debit cards to withdraw cash on gaming floors in more than half of the casinos in the state, a Los Angeles Times review of records found.

    The cards, provided by the Department of Social Services to help recipients feed and clothe their families, work in automated teller machines at 32 of 58 tribal casinos and 47 of 90 state-licensed poker rooms, the review found.

    State officials said Wednesday they were working to determine how much money had been withdrawn from casino ATMs by people using the welfare debit cards.

    Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, who learned of the issue when asked to comment for this story, promised to take immediate action.

    "We have instructed our vendors to prohibit these cards from being accepted at ATMs located in casinos and card rooms," Schwarzenegger spokesman Aaron McLear said Wednesday. "It is reprehensible that anyone would use taxpayer money for anything other than its intended purpose."

    Administration officials said the social services agency contracts with a private ATM network to handle the electronic transfer of benefits to people on welfare, and hadn't noticed that the taxpayer money was being withdrawn at gambling establishments.

    McLear said the system of paying out welfare benefits via bank cards was created under Schwarzenegger's predecessor, Democrat Gray Davis. Since the late 1990s most states have adopted this system, which is a viewed as a more efficient way of distributing and tracking government aid.

    Schwarzenegger has been wrangling with lawmakers over other efforts to combat waste and fraud in the state's social services programs. He fought back a legislative effort to discontinue fingerprinting of food stamp recipients, a system designed to prevent double-dipping and other abuses.

    Casino ATMs account for a handful of the thousands of machines in the contractor's network, and the amount withdrawn from them by welfare recipients almost certainly would comprise a tiny fraction of the state's multibillion-dollar welfare spending. But the issue is likely to come up as lawmakers fight over how best to close their historic budget deficit.

    Schwarzenegger had already threatened to eliminate the state welfare program in his May budget proposal, and that was before he and his Republican allies in the Legislature knew that the cash could be accessed by people strolling from poker games to blackjack tables.

    "In a time when we have a $19-billion deficit, and we're taking a serious look at the future of many safety-net programs, it's appalling to think that welfare beneficiaries can use their cards in a casino," said Seth Unger, spokesman for the Assembly Republican Caucus.

    Democratic leaders, who have vowed to protect the state's fraying social safety net, also began calling for reform Wednesday.

    "In these tough times, when so many children and vulnerable families depend on the safety net, we have to make sure food stamps and other services are being used the way the people of California intended them to be," said Shannon Murphy, spokeswoman for Assembly Speaker John A. Pérez (D- Los Angeles). "Other states have closed this loophole, and the Assembly will work with the Schwarzenegger administration to make that happen."

    The casinos are listed on a Department of Social Services website that allows welfare recipients to search for addresses of ATMs where they can withdraw cash provided under the Temporary Aid for Needy Families program. The monthly grant ranges up to $694; most of the ATMs impose a withdrawal limit of about $300 per day.

    The Times compared the addresses on that website with lists of tribal casinos and state-licensed poker rooms published on the California Gambling Control Commission's website.

    It's not clear which casinos are most frequently patronized by welfare recipients because social services officials denied a January request from The Times for data showing transaction information from all of the ATMs in their network. Department lawyers argued that federal law prohibits the state from releasing financial information about merchants who accept cards issued to welfare recipients.

    Those cards, known as Electronic Benefit Transfer cards, look and work just like ordinary debit cards. They allow welfare recipients to access two accounts: the cash offered so needy parents can provide a home for their children while they train for better jobs, and an electronic version of food stamps that comes with rules governing where and how the benefits can be spent.

    The cash benefits, however, can be withdrawn and spent just about anywhere.

    The Capitol Casino, which occupies a pair of small rooms a few blocks from the legislative chambers in Sacramento, appears on the social services website showing where clients can get money. Each room has an ATM: one is so close to a poker table that a player with long arms could lean back and withdraw cash without leaving his chair; the other is a few steps from the blackjack table.

    At the Casino Royale on the outskirts of Sacramento, the first thing patrons pass as they walk to the gaming floor is the ATM with a sign next to it saying, "Exceed your ATM daily limit here!!"

    Faye Stearns, a part-owner of Casino Royale, said she had no idea people on welfare could withdraw taxpayer dollars from the machine, and would not oppose a measure to prohibit it.

    "I'm sure we wouldn't want to be taking money from children," Stearns said. "The adults? Hey, that's their problem. But kids? No."

    The cash portion of California's welfare benefits comes from the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program. Each year, California gets $3.7 billion from the federal government for the program, while state and local governments kick in an additional $2.9 billion.

    The state of New Mexico and at least one company that supplies ATMs to the gaming industry have already taken steps to make sure their machines in casinos reject welfare benefits cards.

    "I think it makes social sense," said John Monforte, executive director of the New Mexico Gaming Control Board. "There's a balance with gaming. There are wonderful things [casinos] do for tribal governments, but the reality is there are also negative social impacts."

    Global Cash Access, a Las Vegas firm that provides ATMs and other equipment for more than 1,000 casinos in the United States, started programming their machines to reject welfare cards more than a decade ago.

    "Unless a state tells us to allow access to their EBT cards, we will continue to block these cards from being accepted at our devices," said Katie Lever, the firm's general counsel. "It's really easy to do."

    jack.dolan@latimes.com

    Times staff writer Evan Halper in Sacramento contributed to this report.

    Copyright © 2010, The Los Angeles Times

  • #2
    To hell in a handbasket....that bout sums it up....

    CF
    Truth is the cement that holds the bricks and stones of a sane and civilized society together. Remove the former and the latter will crumble.

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    • #3
      Insanity! The whole country is upside down
      All men are created equal but his choices determine his value and what's in his heart determines his worth.

      "Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

      Comment


      • #4
        Remember news reporting that after Katrina, evacuees using their FEMA cards at the Galleria?

        Good times!
        Experiencing an aquatic renaissance!

        Comment


        • #5
          It's hard to stop a person from using ETF card at an ATM. The only way is to encrypt the back of the cards to block all POS accept those approved by the state. Now you are face with who should be approve and not approve. Casinos, no of course. But what about the mom and pop store in the neighborhood? And Texas have a similar problem.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Delock View Post
            It's hard to stop a person from using ETF card at an ATM. The only way is to encrypt the back of the cards to block all POS accept those approved by the state. Now you are face with who should be approve and not approve. Casinos, no of course. But what about the mom and pop store in the neighborhood? And Texas have a similar problem.
            There are 3 data levels for credit/atm cards. It would be simple to set Government issued (taxpayer funded) cards to only support level 3 transactions which would allow every transaction to collect level 3 data and only be used to purchase items listed on the level 3 list of approved products.
            All men are created equal but his choices determine his value and what's in his heart determines his worth.

            "Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

            Comment


            • #7
              welfare gambling

              Do you think these cards work at the Rub and Tuggs too?

              200
              200
              200
              150
              135
              75
              55
              55

              Trophs & Petros ONLY

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ImaGuyGeek View Post
                There are 3 data levels for credit/atm cards. It would be simple to set Government issued (taxpayer funded) cards to only support level 3 transactions which would allow every transaction to collect level 3 data and only be used to purchase items listed on the level 3 list of approved products.
                Approve products? For a cash strap state do you know how much that would cost? You will have to do it by vendor to be more effective.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Delock View Post
                  Approve products? For a cash strap state do you know how much that would cost? You will have to do it by vendor to be more effective.
                  Fair point, the credit card processor would only be able to issue an approval or disapproval based on the items purchased. This wouldn't be difficult and doesn't fall on the States b/c everything we buy is already categorized. It is very similar to going to the grocery store. When you buy a beer, you are taxed b/c it's an alcohol item. When you buy milk it is not taxed b/c it's a government approved non taxable food item.

                  It's all pretty easy. I actually worked for the company and was on the team that developed the first point of sale system for the internet so I know this industry pretty well. It's all in the product data and the credit (or debit) card processors and how the transaction gets processed. Forcing all government issued card to be level 3 transactions only would be pretty easy. The hard part would be if the cards needed to be reissued. That I don't know but even so, I can assume the cost would be negligible in comparison to the fraud we are incurring now.
                  All men are created equal but his choices determine his value and what's in his heart determines his worth.

                  "Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Fair point. But only large retailers use bar code for their product. What about smaller stores or local mom and pops?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Delock View Post
                      Fair point. But only large retailers use bar code for their product. What about smaller stores or local mom and pops?
                      The small shops would have to upgrade their point of sale device and cash registers in order to collect taxpayer subsidized entitlement program funds. The basic point of sale devices don't transmit level 3 data.
                      All men are created equal but his choices determine his value and what's in his heart determines his worth.

                      "Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ImaGuyGeek View Post
                        The small shops would have to upgrade their point of sale device and cash registers in order to collect taxpayer subsidized entitlement program funds. The basic point of sale devices don't transmit level 3 data.
                        but the problem that causes is that it punishes the small business owner for the wrongful actions of a few people. my father in law owns a small business and he gets raked over the coals by the credit card companies to begin with. he had to buy hundreds of dollars worth of equipment and he pays thousands of dollars in fees every year. The way you suggested would require ALL small business to upgrade to even more expensive equipment or quit taking credit cards all together, which is practically suicide for any business in these days.
                        ‎Haiku's are easy
                        But sometimes they don't make sense
                        Refrigerator

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by stevenallenbarnard View Post
                          but the problem that causes is that it punishes the small business owner for the wrongful actions of a few people. my father in law owns a small business and he gets raked over the coals by the credit card companies to begin with. he had to buy hundreds of dollars worth of equipment and he pays thousands of dollars in fees every year. The way you suggested would require ALL small business to upgrade to even more expensive equipment
                          This part is true unless he already has a CC processing machine that transmits level 3 data which I would doubt is true for most small businesses.

                          Originally posted by stevenallenbarnard View Post
                          or quit taking credit cards all together, which is practically suicide for any business in these days.
                          This is not the case. What I suggested would only prevent small non compliant businesses that sell non approved items to process sales on government issued, tax payer funded cards associated with entitlement programs.

                          Example: A small business that sells alcohol would have to upgrade to a level 3 data point of sale device or be excluded from processing Food Stamp cards (not credit/debit cards)

                          A small business without a level 3 processor would have to choose...
                          A) to upgrade to level 3 compliance in order to process government issued, tax payer funded cards associated with entitlement programs.
                          B) to Only sell approved items in order to process government issued, tax payer funded cards associated with entitlement programs.
                          C) Sell whatever they want and not upgrade to level 3 and not to accept government issued, tax payer funded cards associated with entitlement programs as a method of payment.
                          All men are created equal but his choices determine his value and what's in his heart determines his worth.

                          "Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ImaGuyGeek View Post
                            This part is true unless he already has a CC processing machine that transmits level 3 data which I would doubt is true for most small businesses.



                            This is not the case. What I suggested would only prevent small non compliant businesses that sell non approved items to process sales on government issued, tax payer funded cards associated with entitlement programs.

                            Example: A small business that sells alcohol would have to upgrade to a level 3 data point of sale device or be excluded from processing Food Stamp cards (not credit/debit cards)

                            A small business without a level 3 processor would have to choose...
                            A) to upgrade to level 3 compliance in order to process government issued, tax payer funded cards associated with entitlement programs.
                            B) to Only sell approved items in order to process government issued, tax payer funded cards associated with entitlement programs.
                            C) Sell whatever they want and not upgrade to level 3 and not to accept government issued, tax payer funded cards associated with entitlement programs as a method of payment.


                            I just thought of something. But when most grocery stores scan item's they use it for inventory and taxable items. So unless the POS is directly built into the machine then you can bypass this with the ordinary POS located at the end of the checkout line.


                            But this is not about POS it more about ATM's and the loophole that allow a few people to get away with fraud. How do you stop that? Register every atm location to the state based on address?

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