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Whale Wars (Sea Shepards) Kooks. Crooks or Cowboys?

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  • #46


    The following almost made sense to me, until they used the argument that since anti-whaling countries don't plan on resurrecting commercial whaling they don't see the need to kill whales. Yeah, well...!

    4. The US, UK, Australia and others say that it is not necessary to kill whales to study them. Why doesn't Japan use non-lethal research methods?

    The purpose of Japan's whale research is to gather scientific data required to establish a management regime for the sustainable use of whale resources. For this purpose some indispensable data have to be collected by lethal means, which simply cannot be obtained by non-lethal means. JARPA II is therefore a combination of lethal and non-lethal research. Lethal research provides internal organs such as ovaries, ear plugs and stomach contents essential for population and ecosystem modeling. Since the US, UK, Australia and other anti-whaling countries have no intention at the present time to resume commercial whaling they have no need for the kind of scientific data required to establish a management regime for the sustainable use of whale resources. That is why they say it is possible to do whale research without killing whales.


    And more:


    Q5. Why does Japan continue its research whaling in the face of contrary world opinion and in contradiction to the moratorium on commercial whaling?

    In fact, anti-whaling is not "world opinion" ? rather, it is a predominantly Western phenomenon in developed countries amplified by anti-whaling fundraising NGOs and the Western media. Almost half of the IWC members support the sustainable use of whale resources.

    With respect the moratorium on commercial whaling (which was intended as a temporary measure to provide time for the collection and analysis of further scientific data) it is important to note that Article VIII begins with the words "Notwithstanding anything in this Convention..." meaning that the moratorium on commercial whaling does not apply to research whaling. The same Article ends with the words: "...the killing, taking and treating of whales in accordance with the provisions of this Article shall be exempt from the operation of this Convention".


    Q6. Why is Japan killing whales in the IWC Antarctic Sanctuary and in waters claimed by Australia and designated as a sanctuary under Australian domestic law?

    The IWC sanctuary in the Antarctic applies to commercial whaling only. It does not apply to research whaling conducted under Article VIII of the ICRW. Article VIII begins with the words "Notwithstanding anything in this Convention...", meaning that neither the moratorium on commercial whaling nor the sanctuary in the Antarctic Ocean applies to research whaling. The IWC Sanctuary in the Antarctic was adopted without any recommendation from the Scientific Committee that it was required for conservation purposes.

    Further, at the 2004 meeting of the Scientific Committee, invited outside experts strongly criticized IWC sanctuaries as an approach to conservation. Their conclusions were that IWC sanctuaries are not ecologically justified, that they are based on vague goals and objectives, that they lack a rigorous approach to design and operation, that they represent a "shotgun" approach to conservation and, that they are more prohibitive than precautionary.

    In regards to Australia's designated sanctuary, many countries including the U.S. and Japan do not recognize Australia's Antarctic claim. The Antarctic Treaty, to which Australia is a member, freezes all Antarctic claims. From the perspective of the international community therefore, Australia's claim and its sanctuary in Antarctic waters, which it has declared under its domestic legislation, has no legal standing in international law and therefore no effect.


    Q7. Is it possible to kill whales humanely?

    In fact, a large proportion of the whales taken are killed instantly by an explosive harpoon and for those cases when they are not, a secondary killing method (a second harpoon or high caliber rifle) ensures that the time to death is as rapid as possible. These two methods were introduced to ensure the most efficient and humane killing. The IWC has said that the explosive harpoon is the most effective method for killing whales and significant improvements to the humaneness of the hunt have been achieved. Instantaneous death and time to death of less than two minutes for whales is far better than the killing of most other wildlife.

    Q8. Would the transport of meat from humpback whales from the Antarctic to Japan be a violation of CITES rules?

    Definitely not. Although humpback whales are listed on Appendix I of CITES and transport from the Antarctic would constitute "trade" under CITES rules, the trade restrictions applicable to CITES listed species apply only when such trade is primarily for commercial purposes. In this case, Japan, which is solely responsible for such determination, has clearly stated that the primary purpose is for scientific purposes not for commercial purposes.

    Q9. Why doesn't Japan respond positively to the political pressure from its major trading partners and otherwise friendly countries?

    Japan has received political representations from a number of countries urging a change in its whaling policy. The difference of views on the whaling issue has not affected and should not affect the overall good relationship Japan has with these countries. However, the fact that we have a difference of view does not mean that Japan should change its position. These countries do not have the right to impose their ethical or moral values on Japanese as long as whales are sustainably utilized fully consistent with international law and science. Mutual respect for differences, not political coercion, is the solution to this difficult issue.

    Japan embraces a long history of sustainable utilization of whale products as a source of food. Taking into account the growing uncertainty of the world's food supply and its trade, resumption of sustainable use of abundant whale resources as one of the means to acquire animal protein is of vital importance for the future, not only for Japanese people but also for other food deficit countries.


    Q10. Why did Japan agree to postpone its take of humpback whales in the Antarctic?

    Japan agreed to postpone the take of humpback whales at the request of the Chairman of the IWC as long as it views that progress is being made toward the normalization of the IWC considering that it is important at this critical moment to avoid overly emotional responses from anti-whaling countries. In March 2008 the IWC will hold a special meeting to discuss the future of the IWC. Japan, as the current vice-chair, agreed to the request from the Chair of the IWC in the hope that it would contribute to a successful outcome for this meeting.
    "Millennium hand and shrimp!"

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    • #47
      Answered my own question on this one.

      Injuries to ICR crew reported:

      "Millennium hand and shrimp!"

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Mzungu View Post
        http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/62119,...ictory-whaling

        What about this article, that says they blame the Sea Shepherd group for their lowest catch in years? (I might need to corroborate that with statements from the actual ICR site, though...)
        I don't know, we are in the middle of the shows season. I will be watching though :)
        All men are created equal but his choices determine his value and what's in his heart determines his worth.

        "Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

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        • #49
          Originally posted by ImaGuyGeek View Post
          I don't know, we are in the middle of the shows season. I will be watching though :)
          Darn it!! Argh! I hope I didn't give anything away. If I did, I'd be mad at me. :furious:
          "Millennium hand and shrimp!"

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          • #50
            Good research MB
            Resident fish bum
            330G FOWLR
            34G Reef
            330G Discus biotopish (no longer running)
            28G JBJ Reef (no longer running)
            Treasurer, GHAC

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            • #51
              Whale Wars Tonight at 8:00

              WOO HOO! Let's see some hippie butt get kicked on the open seas
              All men are created equal but his choices determine his value and what's in his heart determines his worth.

              "Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

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              • #52
                Dumb A$$ hippies! Anyone watching?
                All men are created equal but his choices determine his value and what's in his heart determines his worth.

                "Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

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                • #53
                  No told you I hate that crap
                  Resident fish bum
                  330G FOWLR
                  34G Reef
                  330G Discus biotopish (no longer running)
                  28G JBJ Reef (no longer running)
                  Treasurer, GHAC

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by ImaGuyGeek View Post
                    Dumb A$$ hippies! Anyone watching?
                    If you watch it, they win.
                    Experiencing an aquatic renaissance!

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by jeebus View Post
                      If you watch it, they win.
                      LOL

                      Mark
                      What are the facts? Again and again and again--what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore devine revelation, forget what "the stars foretell", avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable "verdict of history"--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your only clue.

                      Robert Anson Heinlein

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                      • #56
                        HAHA! Take that you hippies!

                        The latest news and headlines from Yahoo News. Get breaking news stories and in-depth coverage with videos and photos.


                        MOSCOW – Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin fired darts from a crossbow at a gray whale off Russia's Far Eastern coast on Wednesday in the latest in a series of man-versus-nature stunts designed to cultivate the image of a macho leader.

                        Putin held his balance in a rubber boat that was being tossed around in choppy waters off the Kamchatka Peninsula, and eventually hit the whale with a special arrow designed to collect skin samples.
                        Okay, so he wasn't hunting whales, but its still a funny story!
                        Experiencing an aquatic renaissance!

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                        • #57
                          A little comic relief...

                          380G For Sale $3000 Acrylic tank & stand
                          300G Petrochromis Trewavasae and Tropheus mpimbwe Red Cheek & Duboisi
                          180G For Sale $1,100 Oceanic Cherry with Stand, T5HO Lights, (2) Eheim 2262
                          150G Tropheus Annectens Kekese & Ikola

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                          • #58
                            LMFAO!!

                            Mark
                            What are the facts? Again and again and again--what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore devine revelation, forget what "the stars foretell", avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable "verdict of history"--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your only clue.

                            Robert Anson Heinlein

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Did anyone catch the season finale this weekend?

                              Couple things. . . I think that they do have a permit to hunt fin whales (quota=50), and I do believe that they are endangered. They are rare enough that they almost never get any. There are like 3,000-5,000 of them in that region.

                              For those that are unaware, my background is in science. I was studying for an advanced degree in Ecology (the study of organisms and how they interact with their environment), before I left because finances were thin and health insurance was a must, and I moved to a lab that followed, among other things, IACUC protocol (including figuring out minimum acceptable sample sizes). I've spent 13 years in some aspect of the science field. I've read 1000s and 1000s of pages on this stuff, so when I say I have some questions as to what's going on, even though I haven't studied whales specifically, you can take that to mean, something *seems* off from solely a scientific basis (not personal at all).

                              I'm curious as to how they established their "quotas." Even with a healthy population size, the goal in research is to often only take the minimum number (which can be established through mathematical analysis of previous data, which they should have if they've been doing it this long), especially for animals like whales, for a number of reasons. In my mind, birth rate only comes into play in this type of analysis if the minimum that comes back for sampling is something the population can not withstand. If the population is healthy, and the birth rate is fine, typically, the minimum is still the goal, and non-lethal methods preferred to lethal. Even doubling the minimum with a healthy population seems dubious to me from a research standpoint. Where you start dealing with maximum numbers being taken without affecting the population, you start dealing with maximum sustainable yield, a concept primarily used for commericial purposes, but may have some functions in research on small populations (in which lethal sampling methods probably should not be used anyway).

                              Now, as a personal opinion, if they are actually conducting valid research (and not just making up studies that don't contribute very much, so that they can harvest meat under the guise of research), and doing what they should be doing, I don't necessarily have a problem with it. . . I don't even think I object to a sustainable catch, though, but as a necessity, I just don't see it, especially since I've seen the cultural tradition argument be questioned, even by fellow Japanese, who say it hasn't been a mainstay in the typical Japanese diet since the 1960s, and is actually kind of bad for you, since I've heard that there is bioaccumulation of nasty stuff in the meat (which we see in fish and marine mammals regularly, especially those consuming other prey items).

                              . . .but I digress. Anyone have links to the actual research? I'd love to read it, because I'm a giant dork.

                              Oh, and I think some of the folks on the show are kooks. . .
                              Tell your boss you need to go home to take care of your "cichlids." It sounds an awful lot like "sick kids." )

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by TonyO View Post
                                Anyone have links to the actual research? I'd love to read it, because I'm a giant dork.
                                I posted a few in that post with all the links on the previous page. But lots of the research they've done can be found here:



                                It explains a lot about their determining the "quotas," as well.
                                "Millennium hand and shrimp!"

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