Whale Wars (Sea Shepards) Kooks. Crooks or Cowboys?

[ImaGuyGeek]

With that said, seriously, why don't the whalers have guns? International waters, I'd be lighting these hippies up like its battle of Midway.

+1

[wesleydnunder]

So, with that logic, many drug dealers are just regular people trying to make a living and it's a job that helps feed the kids.

You have a choice in what you do as a "profession." Sorry.

This applies to pretty much any illegal activity... they're just feedin' the kids, right?

Mark

[Mzungu]

In my experience, most drug DEALERS choose to do so because its easy. Most drug GROWERS do it to feed their family. From third world poppy farmers to Midwest pot farmers, most do it because its a cash crop that immediately supports their family. These same people would gladly grow any other crop if that's what would pay the bills.

The free market should determine the market for whale. I can't imagine it even being a very big one either with the advent of petroleum and vegetable oil to replace blubber.

With that said, seriously, why don't the whalers have guns? International waters, I'd be lighting these hippies up like its battle of Midway.

I was just using drug dealers as an example of people doing things that are illegal and hurting others just because they need to "feed the kids."

There's always good money to be had in illegal/black market/etc. doings.

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[Mzungu]

This applies to pretty much any illegal activity... they're just feedin' the kids, right?

Mark

Exactly! That's what I meant.

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[wesleydnunder]

By the way I am not condemning what the fisherman are doing but I dont agree with the way in which the activists are trying to stop them. I remember in one of the commercials a captain of one of the activist boats said he tells his crew that they have to be prepared to die for this. How is this any different than terrorism like 9/11? The activists are saying that they will die to stop the whalers from doing what they do. Terrorists say they will die to stop Americans from doing what they do. What is the difference?

People who are willing to die for what they believe in aren't all terrorists. In the 1700s we didn't think we were terrorists for being willing to die for that which we believed. When I was in the military I didn't feel like a terrorist for being willing to die for my country. I don't see how you can compare the atrocity of 9/11 to what these folks are doing, Brian. I could compare Hiroshima and Nagasaki to 9/11 maybe, but not these folks.

Mark

[ImaGuyGeek]

Okay people, some inconvenient facts...

1)The So Called whaling laws were created by the International Whaling Commission. This is a group that has NO legal authority to declare laws in international waters any more than the USA has a right to outlaw (for example) Fishing in international waters. So, the Japanese are in NO WAY violating any international laws because Japan does not recognize the IWC as a Worldwide International Waters Legal Authority. For that matter, I can find NO nation that recognizes the IWC as a Worldwide International Waters Legal Authority which is why there are no enforcement authorities, UN supported Navy or any other Nation patrolling and enforcing these made up laws.

2)Japan is a sovereign Nation and is operating in International waters

3)The Whale population that the Japanese hunt is not in ANY danger of extinction nor are they endangered. The simple math associated with the whales birth rate far exceeds the self imposed limits associated with whaling.

4)The Sea Shepard's proclaim to want to stop whaling however (by their own admission if you watch the show) their primary goal is NOT to stop the killing of whales but to stop the profiting of the Whale food product industry.

In summary, The Sea Shepard's are criminals who have lost their Nation Sponsored Maritime License on several occasions for their illegal activities. They are idealogical and very misguided and are not supported by ANY international Governing body and the Made up laws they claim to be enforcing are not enforceable because they are not real which is exactly why they are the only ships attempting to stop the Japanese.

Now for an opinion...

These people are whack jobs who can't keep their story straight from one episode to the next. One minute they say they are Pirates and their flag is a Pirate flag and then the next minute they are incensed at being called Pirates. They say they want to stop the slaughter of whales but their primary tactic has NOTHING to do with stopping the Japanese from "Killing" the whales, it is only geared towards stopping the processing of whales for sale in Japan. They attack a private vessel on the open sea, then cry when that vessel defends itself.

I could go on all day but these people are morons and someone needs to work on their messaging, image and PR before anyone in their right mind could even consider taking them seriously.

[wesleydnunder]

For what it's worth, I don't have cable so have never seen an episode of this show. It sounds like some hair-splitting goin' on here though. If you want to stop the sale of whale parts, doesn't that kind of include stopping the killing needed to sell those parts?

Maybe it's just me.

Mark

[jeebus]

What's the law on guns in the open sea? Seems like this was a highly discussed issue during the Somali Pirate Craze of 2009 but I can't recall.

[Mzungu]

Okay people, some inconvenient facts...

1)The So Called whaling laws were created by the International Whaling Commission. This is a group that has NO legal authority to declare laws in international waters any more than the USA has a right to outlaw (for example) Fishing in international waters. So, the Japanese are in NO WAY violating any international laws because Japan does not recognize the IWC as a Worldwide International Waters Legal Authority. For that matter, I can find NO nation that recognizes the IWC as a Worldwide International Waters Legal Authority which is why there are no enforcement authorities, UN supported Navy or any other Nation patrolling and enforcing these made up laws.

2)Japan is a sovereign Nation and is operating in International waters

3)The Whale population that the Japanese hunt is not in ANY danger of extinction nor are they endangered. The simple math associated with the whales birth rate far exceeds the self imposed limits associated with whaling.

4)The Sea Shepard's proclaim to want to stop whaling however (by their own admission if you watch the show) their primary goal is NOT to stop the killing of whales but to stop the profiting of the Whale food product industry.

In summary, The Sea Shepard's are criminals who have lost their Nation Sponsored Maritime License on several occasions for their illegal activities. They are idealogical and very misguided and are not supported by ANY international Governing body and the Made up laws they claim to be enforcing are not enforceable because they are not real which is exactly why they are the only ships attempting to stop the Japanese.

Now for an opinion...

These people are whack jobs who can't keep their story straight from one episode to the next. One minute they say they are Pirates and their flag is a Pirate flag and then the next minute they are incensed at being called Pirates. They say they want to stop the slaughter of whales but their primary tactic has NOTHING to do with stopping the Japanese from "Killing" the whales, it is only geared towards stopping the processing of whales for sale in Japan. They attack a private vessel on the open sea, then cry when that vessel defends itself.

I could go on all day but these people are morons and someone needs to work on their messaging, image and PR before anyone in their right mind could even consider taking them seriously.

Interesting, Charles. Didn't know that. Thanks!

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[ImaGuyGeek]

If you want to stop the sale of whale parts, doesn't that kind of include stopping the killing needed to sell those parts?

Maybe it's just me.

Mark

Yes, the problem is that their stated goal is to stop the killing of whales. Their actual real life practice and statements on camera are oriented towards tainting the whale meat to ruin it AFTER the whale is killed so it can't be processed for sale. It is a regular occurrence to hear them state on camera that they are focused on hurting the whaling fleets profit margin. That is the "Misguided" aspect. They are not stopping the whales from being killed, they are simply attempting to effect the bottom line and making a whale that is already dead go to waste. SO the result is that (this is an example, not real numbers) where the Japanese whaling fleet might have to kill 11 whales to meet their target goal of 10 processed, the Sea Shepherd's force the numbers to be 13 whales killed to meet the goal of 10 processed.

[ImaGuyGeek]

Interesting, Charles. Didn't know that. Thanks!

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:) Facts are a funny thing

[Mzungu]

This is off topic but your post reminds me of something I cant stand. The show whale wars. Those people should go to jail for what they are doing. I understand that the boats are fishing for whales when they are banned but these groups go to far in the violent attacks on these boats. They injure and kill people in the name of saving whales. Some of the people they injure are just regular people trying to make a living and this is a job that helps feed the kids. Anyways back to the topic at hand.

I think I've only watched maybe one episode of this show. But I'd think that if the 'activists' had actually seriously injured or killed a Japanese whaler, it would be highly publicized and the continuation of the show would probably be in jeopardy.

Have they ever actually seriously injured or killed any whalers? From what I seem to remember, all they were doing was throwing stink bombs or something on board the whaling ships, and trying to make their cause more public by creating a TV show.

I also remember learning something about how the captain of the activists' ship had quite a controversial and shady background. But, this was back in the first season, so that's quite a lot of time that's passed, and I could be completely wrong.

Regardless, I'd like to look up some stuff about this when I get home. Charles's post has piqued my interest. :)

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[jeebus]

The problem with people like this is that as soon as they get their way, they won't lay down their weapons of protest and go back to being normal working member of society. They will instead just look for another cause. Kind of like most politicians, they are career protesters.

[Darbex]

I am sorry Wesley and MB. I just put human lives over animal life any day. I do not compare the military to terrorists in most cases because the military is used to protect the population of a country they serve. The whale activists are attacking other human beings without provocation. That to me is terrorism. That is fine that they dont like them doing what they do. But they should not risk the lives of people to stop it unless their own life is in endangered. MB do you think that tear gas, water cannons, and other devices cannot cause bodily harm? Do we not remember the police using water cannons on the streets of Detroit (might have my cities mixed up) to expel race protesters? Dont get me wrong I am not comparing this to that event just the harm caused.

[Mzungu]

I am sorry Wesley and MB. I just put human lives over animal life any day. I do not compare the military to terrorists in most cases because the military is used to protect the population of a country they serve. The whale activists are attacking other human beings without provocation. That to me is terrorism. That is fine that they dont like them doing what they do. But they should not risk the lives of people to stop it unless their own life is in endangered. MB do you think that tear gas, water cannons, and other devices cannot cause bodily harm? Do we not remember the police using water cannons on the streets of Detroit (might have my cities mixed up) to expel race protesters? Dont get me wrong I am not comparing this to that event just the harm caused.

But have they ever actually injured someone? My take on the episode I did see was that they were going to do everything they could to make the whalers' lives uncomfortable, like making the air smelly, but avoid anything that was dangerous. (Of course, you could make someone's life uncomfortable with confetti, but there will always be that guy who gets a piece stuck in his eye and sues the confetti-thrower.) Are they actually using tear gas and water cannons?

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