TSA's new security screenings

[CichlidFan]

Again, with regards to the original post....we are being groomed, to accept new rules and guidelines by our government...plain and simple....

Resistance Is Futile. You Will Be Assimilated....

CF

[Darbex]

I believe it is breaking our 4th amendment right and there are better ways of securing our planes than this. Ben Franklin was right and Americans that allow this grotesque abuse of our rights are letting the government head down the slippery slope to oppression and tyranny.

[jeebus]

I believe it is breaking our 4th amendment right and there are better ways of securing our planes than this. Ben Franklin was right and Americans that allow this grotesque abuse of our rights are letting the government head down the slippery slope to oppression and tyranny.

As much as I think what they are doing is wrong, I still have to ask which part of the 4th amendment are they violating exactly? Is the TSA randomly stopping you on the street or coming uninvited to your home? Are you being forced to fly against your will or being bussed to the airport for a mandatory random screening?

Like I said, I don't think its right at all what they are doing, but the constitution is the constitution, and is specific in its language.

[Darbex]

The government needs probable cause to search you. What is their probable cause that I did anything wrong? It shouldnt matter whether I am flying or driving, the government has no authority to stop me and perform an illegal search of my person without probable cause.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." (4th Amendment)

[Darbex]

The TSA screening violates my right to be secure in my persons, they do not have probable cause so no warrant has been issued. Also they have not described the person or place they will be searching. And by saying a blanket statement that we will search all randomly is not describing the person to be searched.

I will fight anyone that wants to take nude pics my wife or feel her up. If you feel its ok for them to do this to you or your wife then thats your choice but I should not be forced to do this for everyone to "feel safe." When we all know this will not provide any more safety than if the government would simply do their job and follow intel and profile. And for you who want to jump on that and start harping about racial profiling. I am not talking about that I am talking about general profiling like the FBI uses in cases. Like looking at the origin, the age, the sex, and many other factors that contribute to the root cause of terrorism at this point in time.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." (Ben Franklin)

[jeebus]

The government needs probable cause to search you. What is their probable cause that I did anything wrong? It shouldnt matter whether I am flying or driving, the government has no authority to stop me and perform an illegal search of my person without probable cause.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." (4th Amendment)

But by buying the ticket are you not waiving your 4th amendment right?

The TSA screening violates my right to be secure in my persons, they do not have probable cause so no warrant has been issued. Also they have not described the person or place they will be searching. And by saying a blanket statement that we will search all randomly is not describing the person to be searched.

I will fight anyone that wants to take nude pics my wife or feel her up. If you feel its ok for them to do this to you or your wife then thats your choice but I should not be forced to do this for everyone to "feel safe."

That's very noble but as a personally curiosity, to what extent are you will to fight to defend your wife's honor, and what about yours? What if your wife is willing to submit so that she may reach her destination on time? Are you prepared to be added to a no-fly list if you choose to not submit to either a scan or a pat-down? What's accomplished then?

[Darbex]

I should not have to suspend my 4th amendment right to fly, drive, walk, or do anything. The 4th amendment was put in place to safeguard us against an intrusive government under all circumstances. Show me where it says on the ticket or during the purchase of one that you waive all rights when you fly. So should the police be able to randomly stop you and pat you down and go through your car? No because we have laws against that unless they have probable cause they cannot do it.

Whatever is within my legal rights to fight. What my wife chooses is within her right she is not a property of mine. What is accomplished is the same as civil disobedience and sending a message that the government does not have a permission to defile me whenever its in the best interest of itself or the "greater good" as defined by the TSA.

[wesleydnunder]

OK, conspiracy theories aside, I don't believe the TSA and by extension, the Government have enacted this program so that they can scan or pat down folks at random just for the fun of it. ...and until there is a large-scale protest of flying it will continue. If enough people refused to fly so that it actually impacted the airlines' bottom lines, there may be some sort of change in the current policy.

As for our constitutional rights; I agree that when you buy a ticket you agree to go by their rules. If you don't agree, don't buy the ticket, take the bus or drive in stead. The world isn't what we wish it to be, it's what it is. We have nut-jobs getting on planes to blow people up. They are willing to use old people, women and kids to do this. How else do we keep them off the planes? Which would be preferable; get searched at the gate or blow up in the air?

People get searched every day without warrants. What about the "No Refusal" periods declared by DPS and other police agencies to catch drunk drivers? Your phone conversations can still be tapped with no warrant.

What is a viable alternative to the scans and pat-downs?

Mark

[Darbex]

Again tell me where it says I waive my rights when I buy a ticket. And the argument that it's ok because of other illegal acts is not an acceptable support. I don't believe Bush' wire taps are right either. Nor are the road stops for drunk driving.

[Darbex]

We as Americans are becoming numb to the fact that the government is stealing our liberties.

[CichlidFan]

When was the last time a Jet Airliner was blown up or brought down by a bomb?

I don't believe in the boogie man....the government made him up for us to fear.....sounds like it's working pretty good too...

Just who is Tim Osmond anyway......smiles.

CF

[jeebus]

I should not have to suspend my 4th amendment right to fly, drive, walk, or do anything. The 4th amendment was put in place to safeguard us against an intrusive government under all circumstances.

And when you fly, you don't have to. However, when ever you are flown (non-privately), you do. The man who crashed his private plane into the Austin IRS building is an example of that. As for ALL circumstances, I don't think so. Ships were the main mode of "public" transportation at the time yet they specifically excluded any mention of them in the fourth amendment even though Naval blockades and boardings were a regular affair.

Show me where it says on the ticket or during the purchase of one that you waive all rights when you fly.

Again tell me where it says I waive my rights when I buy a ticket. And the argument that it's ok because of other illegal acts is not an acceptable support. I don't believe Bush' wire taps are right either. Nor are the road stops for drunk driving.

http://www.fly2houston.com/iahTravelAdvisory

You don't waive all rights, just your 4th Amendment right.

So should the police be able to randomly stop you and pat you down and go through your car? No because we have laws against that unless they have probable cause they cannot do it.

Cars are also individually owned and considered an extension of your person. That 767 you're about to share with 300+ other souls is not yours by extension. The TSA is considering security measures for bus-lines, ferries, and ships as we speak however.

What is accomplished is the same as civil disobedience and sending a message that the government does not have a permission to defile me whenever its in the best interest of itself or the "greater good" as defined by the TSA.

What send would send a louder message would be if we all just stopped flying. However, we're a dependent society and the government 100% counts on that for their success.

[Darbex]

We arent only talking about search of a vehicle we are also talking about a search of yourself. So without cause they have no right to search me or anyone else boarding a plane. The TSA doesnt have the right to do its procedures when I want to board a Greyhound bus either. By the way that is not a waiver of the 4th amendment rights.

You want an answer to stop terrorists why dont we follow the Israeli method. They have even come to America to show us how they do it and yet we still havent implemented it because we are scared by the first and most important step in the process. The big bad word profiling.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101102/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_airport_security

[Darbex]

By the way a cop cant stop you if you are in a rental car which is not individually owned.

[jeebus]

We arent only talking about search of a vehicle we are also talking about a search of yourself. So without cause they have no right to search me or anyone else boarding a plane. The TSA doesnt have the right to do its procedures when I want to board a Greyhound bus either. By the way that is not a waiver of the 4th amendment rights.

Their cause is 9/11. Your waiver is your ticket, and its implied.

You realize that terrorists use your very same POV to argue they they neither should be searched. So if you're right, that also makes them right by proxy. So who's left to get searched?

You want an answer to stop terrorists why dont we follow the Israeli method. They have even come to America to show us how they do it and yet we still havent implemented it because we are scared by the first and most important step in the process. The big bad word profiling.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101102/...rport_security

If you don't want your 4th amendment rights violated then the LAST thing you want is an El Al system in place. This is in the same article you referenced:

Before even entering the airport, all cars are stopped for a security check by armed guards. Cameras scan license plates to match them with a database of suspicious vehicles. Security officials said it's one of the many security filters passengers pass before boarding flights, some of them unknown to the passengers and many others still kept secret.

You say that DUI checkpoints are/should be illegal, but are okay with an El Al system that employs such a checkpoint. It seems you just want the TSA to only profile for potential terrorists while not violating any of your rights, as if there is a perfect formula to accomplish such a goal. Its a great concept, but its infallible. The reason the El AL system works for Isreal is because they do violate rights as they deem necessary. They also only have 2 international airports, where as we have over 100. Israelis also have an inherant understanding that to fly safely they must give up rights. Americans however, seem to have not gotten that yet.

By the way a cop cant stop you if you are in a rental car which is not individually owned.

Not sure where you're going with this..?