Salt water idea

[eklikewhoa]

I still don't believe in putting a dozen damsels in a small tank. Spreading aggression only mean they fight a different fish at different time. It does not mean it's a good thing.

What I do like is when you talk more, there are more info there for people to understand. If these fish were rescued fish, it maybe an excuse, and you should have said so at the beginning so others don't go out and buy a 10G and a dozen damsels to start the hobby.
If I were to rescue them though, I would have given them a better situation rather a tight little place so they have to fight to survive.

Of course it makes a difference that I didnt pay for them but in the same sense I provided for them.

What you have mistaken is that there was very little aggression within the tank, yes they were packed a little tight in the tank but never did I see any illness, bullying or damaged fish. Always eager to eat and always moving around.

Maybe your definition of spreading aggression is to have all fish take a hit from the bully but what I meant was that the increase of inhabitants caused a state of confusion or perhaps a better setting for them that they did not feel the need?

I'm not saying not to go out and get a dozen damsels for a 10g cause if it works then why not?

never did I witness any two single damsels fight each other to validate what you are saying, it did however spread it where it was just a quick chase but never physical contact.

[nightster]

Sounds like cichlid style thinking, pack'em in tight and confuse'em lol. I don't see anything wrong with "going against the grain" if you can make something work that others don't want to try I say more power to you...

[mnemenoi]

I would have to agree that it has worked in many instances of fish that would appear to be very billigerent/nippy toward their own kind and even other tank mates. Your troph tank was a model for this and even most sites are now advising for a school of barbs (12+) to comntrol their aggressive/nippy behavior as it seems to allow them a natural feel and prevent the antisocial behavior solitary keeping causes. I am aware these are isolated instances and not everything will function with this mentality, but thinking outside the box does get unpredictable results. As an aside, do they maintain large schools in the wild? This would suggest that this approach might have more merit then solitary types.

[rage]

I would have to agree that it has worked in many instances of fish that would appear to be very billigerent/nippy toward their own kind and even other tank mates. Your troph tank was a model for this and even most sites are now advising for a school of barbs (12+) to comntrol their aggressive/nippy behavior as it seems to allow them a natural feel and prevent the antisocial behavior solitary keeping causes. I am aware these are isolated instances and not everything will function with this mentality, but thinking outside the box does get unpredictable results. As an aside, do they maintain large schools in the wild? This would suggest that this approach might have more merit then solitary types.

It's very hard to compare our tanks to open oceans.
In the wild, yellow tangs are seen to school. In our tanks, I don't see them do that. In tanks at City Pet where sometimes they have 10, 20 yellow tangs, each of them would just carve out a little space of its own.

In the ocean, if there are aggressive fish around, the less aggressive ones just go hide, there are zillions gallons of water and crevices for them to hide. Sometimes they might fight and kill each other and we would never know.

[eklikewhoa]

It's very hard to compare our tanks to open oceans.
In the wild, yellow tangs are seen to school. In our tanks, I don't see them do that. In tanks at City Pet where sometimes they have 10, 20 yellow tangs, each of them would just carve out a little space of its own.

In the ocean, if there are aggressive fish around, the less aggressive ones just go hide, there are zillions gallons of water and crevices for them to hide. Sometimes they might fight and kill each other and we would never know.

I couldn't have said it better than myself!!

So why are we trying to mimic that of the ocean?
Why are we reading all the information that is given to us about the species when observed in the wild?
Why would it be so wrong for someone to keep the species in a setting not appointed by some researcher when to begin with they are not in the same setting?

We try to adapt and provide for them the way we deem fit or for some, how some internet profile tells them to. Regardless of which way none would be nearly close to what they were taken from.

[Darbex]

I have had yellow tangs school in my 330. I got a mean yellow tang from a guy put it in my tank and he became besties with my other.

[eklikewhoa]

Rage, If you have had different experiences other than the single time you attempted to have a damsel in your tank without luck it would be great to hear.

This way we can compare all of our personal experiences and for those that find this thread at a later date can base their decision off of what has been attempted prior.


I had a lot of the same mentality tell me my old macro algae wave tank wouldn't work and that the amount of bio-load I had was a disaster waiting to happen but yet not a single one could tell me why other than what as read and repeated from the internet source with no link. In the end, that tank (tap water mix as well) did amazingly well with a bio-load triple of what the tank size was and all lived in harmony. Params where better than that of most reef tanks with all the new fancy gadgetry.


There has been a lot of change with the hobby but I can tell you that growing up you didn't see fancy lights, $1000 controllers, all this filtration equipment we have today, most of the nicer tanks I have seen back then were ran with an undergravel filter with a bubble maker and maybe a powerhead.

[mistahoo]

I think we all know who's won this debate by a landslide. Another person successful with keeping multiple damsels is Scorpioswife. She's got 3 damsels that were getting along and the one I had was a mean one. Last I heard they were getting along.

I believe in packing the tank with fish if they are aggressive. It disperses that aggression so well. It works with freshwater fish, why not try it out for saltwater fish? What's so wrong with that?

[rage]

I couldn't have said it better than myself!!

So why are we trying to mimic that of the ocean?
Why are we reading all the information that is given to us about the species when observed in the wild?
Why would it be so wrong for someone to keep the species in a setting not appointed by some researcher when to begin with they are not in the same setting?

We try to adapt and provide for them the way we deem fit or for some, how some internet profile tells them to. Regardless of which way none would be nearly close to what they were taken from.

I mentioned the ocean only because mnemenoi suggested that fish school in the ocean -> hence they are better in a school in our tank.

As an aside, do they maintain large schools in the wild? This would suggest that this approach might have more merit then solitary types.

One expert or one person with experience says something does not mean the absolute law of fish keeping but when a whole lot of them say it, based on a whole lot of experience then it means something.

[rage]

I have had yellow tangs school in my 330. I got a mean yellow tang from a guy put it in my tank and he became besties with my other.

2 tangs is not a school. Also a 330g is a lot of space. How many people on here has a 330g?

[rage]

I think we all know who's won this debate by a landslide. Another person successful with keeping multiple damsels is Scorpioswife. She's got 3 damsels that were getting along and the one I had was a mean one. Last I heard they were getting along.

I believe in packing the tank with fish if they are aggressive. It disperses that aggression so well. It works with freshwater fish, why not try it out for saltwater fish? What's so wrong with that?

I don't know why it has to be win and lose with you and eklikewhoa?
We just share experience. If you really want to count, try dozens and dozens of other salty websites and see how many people agree with you.

[rage]

.. In the end, that tank (tap water mix as well) did amazingly well with a bio-load triple of what the tank size was and all lived in harmony. Params where better than that of most reef tanks with all the new fancy gadgetry.

If you get tired of cleaning out detritus and feeding then I wouldn't count that a success.
A successful tank requires very little maintenance.
My tank is only half way decent but I don't do hardly anything but changing out 20-25% water and clean skimmer cup every month, sometimes 2 months. I add ATO water once a week. If I get tired of feeding I could feed flakes with auto fish feeder and then I don't even have to do that.
I have enjoyed this tank for the past 3, 4 years on that schedule and I imagine I can keep this tank for a long long time.

[Darbex]

Salt water idea

Just because you have to clean a tank more often then yours doesn't mean it's a failure. Discus tanks require a lot of maintenance relative to Africans.

[mistahoo]

Re: Salt water idea

If you get tired of cleaning out detritus and feeding then I wouldn't count that a success.
A successful tank requires very little maintenance.
My tank is only half way decent but I don't do hardly anything but changing out 20-25% water and clean skimmer cup every month, sometimes 2 months. I add ATO water once a week. If I get tired of feeding I could feed flakes with auto fish feeder and then I don't even have to do that.
I have enjoyed this tank for the past 3, 4 years on that schedule and I imagine I can keep this tank for a long long time.

I completely disagree. A successful tank is one that doesn't kill everything in it. Very little maintenance or a lot of maintenance is just a choice. It has nothing to do with success. Because if that were the case, all tanks are failures because they are not rivers, lakes, oceans, etc.

Sent from my spaceship using Tapatalk 2.

[rage]

Just because you have to clean a tank more often then yours doesn't mean it's a failure. Discus tanks require a lot of maintenance relative to Africans.

Apples and oranges.