Beginner Invert Questions

[TonyO]

I've kept saltwater fish in the past (actually, I think I've kept almost everything in the past), but never really had many inverts. I've had some snails and an anemone that was doing pretty well.

I'm thinking about doing a seahorse tank in my 50-gallon. I've been doing some preliminary reading, and I'm getting the impression that some of the inverts would be ok to keep with them. I was looking at zooanthids, mushrooms, green star polyps, Anthelia, etc.

I have some questions. . . what would be the specific lighting and flow requirements for these inverts? What is the best way to acheive said lighting? This is a deep tank (about 22''), but I've read that you can move some of these animals up and down the depth of the live rock wall until you find where the light is best. Is that true?

I've also read something about the toxicity of zooanthids. What can you tell me about this?

Thanks, everyone!

[snookfish]

Almost all of those corals are soft corals, the lease demanding in both care and light requirements. so they would do fine in just about any PC or T5-HO lights you use (I'd go T5-HO). basic rule of thumb would be 4-6 watts per gallon for softies, even for the depth you have. The mushrooms do just fine, in fact prefer, to hang out away from the most intense light, close to the bottom. You can move the corals up and down in depth, just realize at some point they will attach to a large enough peice of rock that you can't move. with T5's or PC, you shouldn't have to move anything except for aesthetic reasons.
as far as flow, that might be the hardest part. i haven't done a seahoese tank myself, but I know they are not fantastic swimmers, the flow rate inside the tank for most softies should be somewhere around 500gal/minute in a 50gal tank (10x). That might be too much for the seahorses. you could probably get away with 6x tank volume flow (thats total, not each powerhead) with softies, but your going to need more powerheads to get rid of dead spots.
The toxicity of zoos is more of an issue if you are cutting them into frags. inside of them, when cut, or eaten in the wild, they release a neurotoxin that has varied side effects. I've heard of someone loosing thier sense of taste for a couple of weeks when they cut into one and the "juice" got into either thier eye or a cut, I can't remember which one. But zoo's just hanging out in a tank it's a non-issue. I've had zoo colonies get ripped when a rock moved and tore the colony and it didn't effect anything in the tank. the toxin has to find a way into your body. if you ever frag them just wear latex gloves and safety goggles.
good luch with the seahorses, you'll need it just feeding the dang things!

[soymilk]

Might be easier to keep seahorses in a smaller tank. They are very poor swimmers and slow eaters.

Zoa's have been known to squirt too. They can squirt several inches as well. Always handle with caution. Palytoxin is one of the most poisonous toxins out there. Always handle zoas and palys with gloves. If you do plan to have zoas or palys, let someone in your family know the term "palytoxin" just in case you become incapacitated so they can let the doctor know. Palytoxin is very rare to get normally..... Unless you have a reef tank. That way the doctor can respond accordingly.

Google palytoxin

[TonyO]

I'm going to have to figure out how to reconcile the flow requirements. . . if I can't, I'll just go with the seahorses. I've read about spot feeding them, and I don't have a problem with that, if I have to. Supposedly, the captive-breds are a little easier from a feeding aspect, because they are pretty much already eating at that point.

I have months to figure it out. Their tank isn't coming until October.

[myjohnson]

You could just put the corals closer to the flow source.

[tang-chaser]

yeah i would just not go with sea horses. I always hear there a pain and need too much attention. as for the zoas being toxic, they will have no effect on the fish nit all or toxic an most seem to have no effect on people. There are horror stories but you have a better chance of getting struck by lightning riding a neon pink bike with blue dots in a thunderstorm. Leather corals will most likely be the dictating chemical toxin factor in a home reef tank and still have no or little effect on fish. Just run carbon and skim and theres nothing to worry about other than placement. Though i do recommend wearing safety glasses when fraging any coral. As for the flow. I noticed my zoas and star polyps love the moderate to high flow but the mushrooms and leathers can go will low to moderate. I would probably do t5 just because of color combinations and lower electricity bill and less $ on replacing bulbs.

[TonyO]

Well, talking with Dad tonight. . . they still have some of my stuff at their house in Michigan. I had to move fast, and in the process of moving fast, I also moved very light (only the essentials. . . except I managed to sneak an empty tank without a stand in there). We're comtemplating not bringing this tank and stand down now, which is a bummer, because it's a nice Oceanic, but it is what is. They've already got to worry about other things, namely the cat, and it may just be easier to move some extra stuff without the tank and stand in there.

That means, though, that I'll be purchasing another one, probably a 75-gallon, and I'll try something else.

Thanks for the help! I appreciate the information!

[black_knight]

Tony,
If you want to learn how to keep seahorses try Seahorse.org (not Seahorse.com). They've got great info. Lots of seahorse fanatics. I use to keep both Redi and Zosterae (dwarf seahorses)- lost them to hydras? Buy captive bred. If you want a good place to order form, PM me and I'll give you their website. They are reliable people, but I suggest you do lots of home work before purchasing them. Regular size seahorses are usually kept in tall tanks. They are lazy feeders so they are not going to chase down (except for bigger species ) across the length of the tank for food. They will target feed, and you can train them to do so. This is the best way. They usually will snick (a term we use for the way seahorses suck down their food- syngnathids= fused jaws) up food they percieve alive. So feeding frozen mysis shrimp, you'll need a current. They do not store enough energy in the form of fat as other fish do, and must feed frequently. They need a bare minimum of once a day feedings to stay alive. Start missing days and you'll have a sick seahorse. Due to this feeding regiment, many Seahorse keepers, keep them in bare bottom tanks, to easily sipon and change out water (mysis fouls water very quickly). You'll need to plan for someone to feed them if your gonna be gone longer than 1-2 days. They are like chameleons and change color readily. Dwarf seahorses are pretty cool too. However you will rarely get them to eat frozen foods , even cylopeeze. You'll need to hatch brine shrimp every 3 days. Adult brine shrimp are to big for them to snick up. You'll need several batches in case one fails. And you would't believe how much one seahorse will eat. All seahorses are generally lazy feeders, so you wind up feeding alot , multiple times a day. Exception to the lazy rule (so I've heard and witnessed) Abdominalis (largest of the group). These guys will cahse a baby bolly down across the tank (they get about a foot long). They need chillers (they need temperate water below 68'). Most seahorses even tropical species need cooler water (tropicals usually less than 76'). Barburi will do well in high 70's). Generaly 65-74' for most species. The most comon ones Erectus (best beginer seahorse- clydesdale of the seahorse world), Redi (very colorful, and active- arabians of the seahorse world), Kuda , Kellogi, and Barburi will do well in unheated tanks, just watch the light in the tanks, they tend to heat up the water too much (note I kept some in a plug and play cube tank- compact light heat the water too much). Coral except for zoas are usually a bad idea in seahorse tanks (stingers). Now I've made them sound like they are delicated, but to the contrary, if they are fed well, and temp. is stable, these guys can survive wide shifts in specific gravity and amonia spikes. They are very demanding with time, due to feeding requirements. Them most comon ones I mentioned will do well in 1-2 pairs in a 30- 40 gallon tank. Typically, they recomend 2 1/2- 3 x the height of the max length of seahorse. Erectus run about 6-8inches (much debated), so you'll want 20-24 inch high tank.