Geophagus Breeding

[morpheus]

Long post.

Just wanted to put this thread out there since I see a range of answers on different forums. I never bred Geos, but would like my Geos to breed. was unsure if they are of mature age yet, had the right setup, or if these behaviors sound like they are nearing a breeding attempt.

I have 3 surinamensis. there are two males (both around 6 inch) and one female around 4 inch maybe. the first two purchased turned out to both be male, so the female was bought later. essentially now waiting to see if she pairs with a male. i noticed a pit has been dug a few times in the same spot over the past 4-6 weeks. i do a gravel clean and it fills in, but it gets dug out again periodically down to the glass bottom.

There are also 2 brasiliensis in the tank. i assume i have a male and a female, not sure. i got both from troy at same time. one was a little larger than other at the time, but one is now markedly larger (estimate larger is 6 inch, smaller is 4-5). the two get along fine, then for maybe a period of 4 days, the smaller one (which i thought was the female by its size) was mercilessly chasing the larger whenever the light was on. never bit the other or caused any injury, but was to the point where the larger one hid near the filter and stopped eating. i saw them do the circle swim once and lock lips, then all of a sudden it was back to normal. feeding resumed, and no chasing at all. that was maybe 6 weeks ago

Tank is 56gal. More so a cube than the standard length. Has a few rocks (limestone). i recently added two flat rocks in opposite corners of the tank. mainly larger root like ornaments (would like to switch to driftwood at some point). Gravel bottom. the temp is generally around 80-82F. the pH fluctuates, but was around 7.5 or so last test. and houston water, so assume harder.

other tankmates are 10 red blue columbian tetras, 2 silver dollars, two juvi africans (just added few days ago until they are big enough to join the mbuna colony) and a pleco

Just wanted to get peoples take on the setup, behaviors, etc.

Thanks for any tips/advice.

[Austy16414]

Sounds like most the things you're doing are good, but I would consider swapping out your gravel for sand (earth eaters). It'll improve your water parameters and allow more room for breeding. With gravel, eggs will be more likely to be lost in the crevices and end up becoming waste. They tend to like open sand areas as well as flat rocks (which you already have). Sounds like your two males need to hurry up and duke it out for supremacy so that the dominant male can pair with your female. Switching to driftwood and using it to create breaks in line of sight might also encourage breeding. Lastly, I would consider removing any fish (probably best to remove the Brasiliensis) which seem to be interfering. The Brasiliensis are regarded as a more aggressive geo, while Suris are on the gentle side. Seems like your tank stays pretty busy based off livestock, which could be hindering breeding attempts. Lastly, I'm not sure if it's a possibility, but moving them to a larger tank could lead to more reproductive behavior. Not sure if any of this helps, but hopefully something does. Best of luck!

[morpheus]

Thanks for the advice Austy.

I have been thinking about changing over to sand for ease of cleaning too. i know the suris like sand better to sift, but have heard it is kinda a pain when you already have livestock present due to removing them until the sand settles. is it a quick changeover from gravel to sand? my guess just put fish in buckets with an airstone for a few hours?

the two males suris seem to follow eachother around always. they nip here and there, gills flared, but neither truly rules the other. if anything they tend to be around eachother more than the female. the ornaments do create sight blocks, but driftwood looks nicer than plastic. my yellow lab fry net around $35 per trade-in so far....so i am slowly upgrading and may use the next trade towards some drift pieces.

the only other larger tank i have is my 75gal, which is the mbuna colony and a 7 inch JD. the suris wouldnt work in there, not sure if the brasiliensis would or not.

[agamberutti]

I agree with everything Austin suggested. Definitely switch to sand and personally I would take out all other fish except the suris if you want them to breed. Start feeding them higher protein food like blood worm or live food if you have it. Then do 30-50% wc for 3 consecutive days making sure new water temp is about 3-5deg cooler. I do this with my tapajo and they breed every 4 weeks like clock work

[agamberutti]

If they do breed keep an eye on female. The male can get rough after.

[morpheus]

Thanks agamberutti

logical step one then is switch to sand then just to make them happier in general. maybe take out an ornament or two to give more swimming area. shouldt take that much time. PFS shouldnt take long to clarify. i would think it just sinks being a larger grain size.

i can think about the tankmates then after that step is done.

[Austy16414]

I was hoping Adam would jump on here, he's got a group of Rio Tapajos that's becoming quite prolific.

Morpheus, the switch is a pain, but it's totally manageable. Step 1 is pull all the fish out of your tank and put them in tubs (I use 2 brute cans) that can accommodate them for 2-4 hours or more depending on how long you wait for the water to clear afterwards. Then you gut the tank out and obviously keep your filter media wet (or just run your filters on the fish tubs). Swap the sand and reverse process. The most important part of this is to make sure there are no fish in the tank when you start disturbing the gravel and not to use any of the water after disturbing the gravel because of the nitrate pockets that may be in the gravel

[morpheus]

i will probably do it this weekend. i estimate a few hours and see how it looks, but the process i read seemed simple enough.

-Remove fish (i was planning on a few buckets with an air pump going)
-Turn off filter
-Drain tank maybe 70%
-Scoop out gravel
-Rinse sand (debris from gravel should settle as i wash)
-Vac out leftover debris
-Put sand in
-Refill and let settle
-Once its pretty clear enable filter and fish go back in

[ptran]

Comment on switching gravel to sand. It's not as bad as you think it is. I did it one time on my 100G. I left the fish in, but they were smaller at that time. It is just like a big water change.

1. Wash your sand real good and in buckets ready to go in.
2. Syphone out about 40% of water. Let the filter running.
3. Remove all decorations, big rocks.
4. Push all gravel to 1 side, then use a tupperware container to scoop out gravel. Vacuum tank bottom as required after removing all gravel to remove any gunk.
5. Use tupperware container or something small to gradually drop sand in on 1 side of the tank. Then distribute it out evenly.
6. Replace rock, deco.
7. Pump water back in. It should clear up in no time with filter running.

I understand it is easy to say, but trust me it's not that bad. I think removing the fish and put them in a bucket would cause more stress than doing this. Good luck!

[barrettsline]

use an ice chest to wash your sand in. it makes the process so much faster!! I can wash clear 100 pounds of sand in an hour. Keep in mind that your water needs to be more acidic for certain south americans to breed and also for the eggs to mature properly. It the water is to hard the eggs will simply die.

Personal preference on my end. It the water isn't clear when I'm done washing it, it's not ready for my tank. My 135 was clear when I filled it only because I washed my sand until the water ran clear.

[Austy16414]

You can absolutely swap them without pulling the fish, just be sure to keep an eye on your nitrate levels

Another little to trick to keep from clouding your tank is to place a bowl in your tank and let the refill water run into the bowl instead of onto the sand

[morpheus]

Thanks for the video ptran....no sound on my PC at the office, so i can listen at home later. and since this is only a 56gal i assume 50 lbs of PFS would do fine (if not overkill) for maybe a 2 inch layer

i would prefer to avoid removing the fish, so its good to know i can leave them in there for less stress. i vac my gravel every 10-14 days as it is, so its not really THAT dirty. not a huge amount of debris comes up as i vac.

i like ptrans method to treat it like a bigger water change.

-Have the sand ready
-Remove decor
-Siphon gravel like a normal WC since this removes water anyway
-Do the swap out to sand
-Refill

[barrettsline]

You only want an inch to an inch and a half at most. Two inches may not allow for light to penetrate the sand. Dark voids in sand can allow for the build up of Anaerobic Bacteria ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic_organism ). You should only need maybe 30 lbs.

[morpheus]

...Keep in mind that your water needs to be more acidic for certain south americans to breed and also for the eggs to mature properly. It the water is to hard the eggs will simply die....

I bred firemouths when i was back up in Pennsylvania. softer water though out of tap and usually around 7.0. havent attempted any SA down here. the pH in this tank does tend to move. tap is 8.0, but the tank i have seen it from high 6s to mid 7s. its never at tap level (hence the limestone).

tank is 10+ years old, so maybe some old tank syndrome.

[barrettsline]

I bred firemouths when i was back up in Pennsylvania. softer water though out of tap and usually around 7.0. havent attempted any SA down here. the pH in this tank does tend to move. tap is 8.0, but the tank i have seen it from high 6s to mid 7s. its never at tap level (hence the limestone).

tank is 10+ years old, so maybe some old tank syndrome.

LOL, old tank syndrome. Co-workers are looking at me wondering why i am laughing. Almond leaves in your filters will help combat Texas's hard water.