Plinkers!

[Brownsnoutuk]

Re: Plinkers!

Get an unchoked shotgun an the spread should make any shot count :P Plus the sound will scare anyone away.

Make it a 20 gauge with bird shot and it wont kick much.

[mrairportjunke]

Re: Plinkers!

no but it will DESTROY that part of the house.  lol.  hell any gun will work knockin some shots off. you ever fired a .38 snubnose. you and everyone within 50 ft are deaf for a week after that.  plus, any shot and some fools still in the house.  they got some seriuos mental issue 38 put a bettter hole through em than some 20 gauge bird shot.

[mrairportjunke]

Re: Plinkers!

no but it will DESTROY that part of the house.  lol.  hell any gun will work knockin some shots off. you ever fired a .38 snubnose. you and everyone within 50 ft are deaf for a week after that.  plus, any shot and some fools still in the house.  they got some seriuos mental issue 38 put a bettter hole through em than some 20 gauge bird shot.

[geoff_tropheus]

Re: Plinkers!

We have become a society that is diposable.

[imagirlgeek]

Re: Plinkers!

Here's the way I see it.  If someone is going to hurt or kill me, I want to be able to protect myself.  I would never shoot someone unless I was seriously in fear for my life.  Having said that, I am a habitual door locker.  House door, car door, I lock doors behind me without even thinking about it.  But what if I'm walking through a parking lot and someone grabs me and is dragging me away to rob me, violate me or worse, kill me?  I have my CHL and feel very good about having taken that course, because it is drilled into your head that you should only use deadly force if you think you are going to be hurt/killed by the other person.  You see what Joe Horn is going through.  He's not in jail, but his life has got to be miserable right now.  Death threats, protests outside his house.  What a mess!!  At the end of the day, I'm not going to go looking for trouble, but if trouble finds me, I want to know that I can protect myself.

Just my opinion. :)

[geoff_tropheus]

Re: Plinkers!

I feel for that guy.  That's a mess he got himself into. I think I would have shot the tires out first, and let the police handle chasing them and ID the vehicle.

But..at the same time, if you go after them, and they have a weapon, I'd done the same front or back I'd not give a ****.  It comes to me or them, its them...

[screename]

Re: Plinkers!

Remember, this is only MY OPINION.

Im sorry, but Joe Horn is an idiot.  His life was not in danger.  He went looking for trouble.  The police SPECIFICALLY said, "Sir,  do not go outside, sir.  Please stay in your house.  The police are on the way".  It doesnt get much clearer than that!!!

I DO NOT feel sorry for Joe Horn because:

1.  His life was not in immediate danger
2.  He was the instigator
3.  It was not even his property that was being burglarized
4.  He totally disobeyed law enforcement's direct orders
5.  He left the phone on the whole time  

I have seen my neighbors getting broken into.  I do have weapons.  I stayed in my damn house and called the cops.  Is it really worth MY life to save some of my neighbor's property.  HELL NO!

One last thing to think about..... last year there was a robbery involving 3 suspects.  They burglarized a house once and came back to the same house to retrieve a safe that they had seen during the first robbery.  The owner of the house shot and killed 2 suspects, I believe.  Im trying to find the article but I think he was law enforcement.  The scary thing is that the suspects were wearing bullet proof vests and the home owner had to kill them by head shots.  So, do YOU have your bullet proof vest ready? Im sure some of us on here do!!!!  So, before you go out trying to be Mr. or Ms. Save the day with your trigger happy self, better save up the $1000 and get a bullet proof vest first.  Oh yeah, and go get your CHL too.  It will help you in court.

[NDsuperduty]

Re: Plinkers!

That whole situation is a mess.  Thepolice operater told him not to go outside, and he told them he was going outside with a gun.  He definately had a way out of the situation, but I understand his wanting to protect his neighborhood.

What irritates me is how everyone(black and white) is turning this into a race issue.  There is no reason for anyone to say this is a race issue, and yet that is what it is becoming.

[geoff_tropheus]

Re: Plinkers!

Yeah the race thing is getting into some stupid **** there, but that's what happens when people try to get notority or what they see as free-publicity to make this into something more than it was.

So the guy shot two robbers in the back after he was told to stay in the house by the police.  The guy screwed up, but the people that turned it into a white guy shooting some black people in the back while they were robbing and stealing just makes it even more wrong.

I dont think anyone's life is worth property, we can replace the TV, but we cannot replace you.  That does not mean, that the people who stole the TV, should get away with it.

Do you think criminals will go in that neighborhood and commit crimes, if a crazy man with a shotgun took care of some business?  I think less crimes would be committed if...the punishment was more severe.

[ImaGuyGeek]

Re: Plinkers!

First let me say, I  know my "Opinion" is far to the right on this issue so plaese understand that I know and I recognize this so please take that into consideration before you blast me. Also, I have very strong feelings about this particular issue and my "Opinion" won't be changed so please don't blast me trying to make me "See the light" :)

Okay, here we go (deep breath, I'm sure this won't be popular)...

1. It was a 911 operator that gave Joe Horn the advice that he chose to ignore. You don't even have to have a GED to hold this position. 911 operators are not law enforcement and they are not trained in the law or legal matters. 911 operators are  call center operators who dispatch civil servants such as law enforcement, EMS or the Fire Dept based upon the needs of the caller. I am in no way taking away from the importance of this role, just pointing out the mis representation of where the advice came from.

2. When you take the CHL class you are instructed to call 911 and leave the phone on in the event you shoot someone so there can be a recording of the incident.

3. Joe Horn was well within his legal rights according to the law. “9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if, under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to protect his own land or property and: (1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property;”


So all of this said, what did we as a society lose? Honestly? We lost 2 career criminals and now home invaders know that this neighborhood is not a great place to rob houses.

My opinion… We are better off as a society as a result of Joe Horn’s actions. These two men were not only not contributing to our society in any positive way, they were making it a worse place. Joe Horn also gave Home invaders a little something to think about next time they decide to violate another person’s home.

I think he deserves to be commended. These guys had done this before and most likely would have done it again. What if it were your house? What if you or your wife or your children were there when they came in. Joe Horn made a contribution to society.

Okay, I’m ready for the backlash now 

[NDsuperduty]

Re: Plinkers!

First let me say, I  know my "Opinion" is far to the right on this issue so plaese understand that I know and I recognize this so please take that into consideration before you blast me. Also, I have very strong feelings about this particular issue and my "Opinion" won't be changed so please don't blast me trying to make me "See the light" :)

Okay, here we go (deep breath, I'm sure this won't be popular)...

1. It was a 911 operator that gave Joe Horn the advice that he chose to ignore. You don't even have to have a GED to hold this position. 911 operators are not law enforcement and they are not trained in the law or legal matters. 911 operators are  call center operators who dispatch civil servants such as law enforcement, EMS or the Fire Dept based upon the needs of the caller. I am in no way taking away from the importance of this role, just pointing out the mis representation of where the advice came from.

2. When you take the CHL class you are instructed to call 911 and leave the phone on in the event you shoot someone so there can be a recording of the incident.

3. Joe Horn was well within his legal rights according to the law. “9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if, under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to protect his own land or property and: (1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property;”


So all of this said, what did we as a society lose? Honestly? We lost 2 career criminals and now home invaders know that this neighborhood is not a great place to rob houses.

My opinion… We are better off as a society as a result of Joe Horn’s actions. These two men were not only not contributing to our society in any positive way, they were making it a worse place. Joe Horn also gave Home invaders a little something to think about next time they decide to violate another person’s home.

I think he deserves to be commended. These guys had done this before and most likely would have done it again. What if it were your house? What if you or your wife or your children were there when they came in. Joe Horn made a contribution to society.

Okay, I’m ready for the backlash now 

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

The only thing I will add is that Black, White, Brown, Red, Yellow, whatever.......If you are a criminal and get hurt or killed while committing a crime then you deserve absolutely no right to recourse.  If you break your leg while running from the police, Tough ****.  If you get beat up while resisting arrest, GOOD.  If you get shot while breaking and entering, GREAT.  There is an easy way to prevent excessive force from being put on you.......Dont commit the crime.

[loopy119]

Re: Plinkers!

I don't think that it would have been made such a big deal if it were two white guys robbing the house and a black guy shot them... It's just like that school in Missouri City where signs were posted over the drinking fountains saying that one was for whites and one for "coloreds"...when everyone found out that it was a black kid that did it, it was forgotten... That's not really fair, IMO, b/c he WAS being racist to white people and maybe he was trying to say that white people aren't good enough to drink from his fountain... How come the news dropped it so fast? B/c no one wants to hear about anybody oppressing white people--instead, we hear about how racist white people are and what some of our ANCESTORS did to others ANCESTORS... Why should I pay for a crime that I did not commit? My family never owned slaves, but because I'm white and I talk with a southern accent, I'm automatically labeled a racist redneck...not too fair... Sorry if I offended anyone, I just had to get some of that off my chest...it really bothers me sometimes...

Oh, and also, I'm glad he shot those thieves! If he were a black man shooting white thieves, I would still be glad!!! Eventually someone has to make an example of what will happen when people get fed up seeing their neighborhoods being looted and nothing being done about it! They broke the law, and they got what they knew could happen to them if they tried it! Now these gangs are threatening this man's life because he did the right thing...this world sure has become a messed up place!!  

Rebekah

[screename]

Re: Plinkers!

I totally respect your opinion imaguygeek.

1.  I agree...my bad
2.  I know that you are supposed to leave the phone on but thats what is ultimately getting him in trouble.  Im not saying that you should leave the phone off but his leaving the phone on is what is getting him in trouble.
3.  I have taken the CHL course and understand that he was well within his rights.  I should have been more specific.  What Im trying to say is that I, personally, would not risk my own life for my neighbor's TV.  Thats just me.  If someone else wants to risk their life for their neighbor's television set, go right on ahead.  It just doesnt make sense to me.  Dont get me wrong.  If I felt that my life, my family's life, or my property was going to be taken, I would definitely engage.  

That being said, we lost more than those 2 criminals.  We could potentially have lost Mr. Joe Horn.  Do I feel sorry for the burglars?  Not at all.  I hate burglars and you wont hear me complaining that they are dead.  Do I feel sorry for Joe Horn?  He put himself in a bad position.  Hes the one that could be facing some serious trouble if the Grand Jury decides to press charges.  I understand that he has apologized for his actions to the public and the family of the deceased and that he was very upset during the call.  I would have been too!!!  But, I would never put myself in a position where I may have to spend XX years in jail for my neighbor's stuff.  @#$ that, they can take all they want.  Im sure its insured.  

So, if 2 guys were breaking into YOUR NEIGHBOR'S HOUSE and you were in the same position as Mr. Joe Horn, would you engage?  With your training are you 100% positive you can neutralize the situation?  Are you willing to possibly go to court and face jail time and have death threats aimed at you and your family.  Are you prepared to say, "Im sorry" to the news camera?  I would like to get some feedback on these questions!!!  And to answer your last question...if it was my house, there would be no debate.  I will defend myself to the fullest extent.  Again, this was NOT his house.  Thats what makes this whole dilemma so interesting.

Again, I am in no way trying to defend the burglars.  Im just saying that there is NO WAY Im going to risk my life and my freedom for my neighbor's property.  It just doesn't make sense to me.....unless my relatives are my neighbors which is ironically the case for me ( aunts/uncles/cousins/grandparents have 3 homes and we all live in the same neighborhood).

[eklikewhoa]

Re: Plinkers!

I feel that he did no wrong in stopping CRIMINALS but I do fel that it was poor judgement on his part.

But lets flip the script a bit....what if there was someone inside? Would they commend him then for saving another's life?

I myself am a chl holder and when needed it comes in handy....also own a vest which gets put on for me and the fiance in the event something is stirring in the night. The chl has personally deescaladed a few incidents and I'm glad for it.

When it happens to me though 911 is dialed and the phone going...no chances taken.

[imagirlgeek]

Re: Plinkers!

I see what you are saying.  And to answer your question, if it was my neighbor on the left, yes, I would take that chance, but only because they are elderly and I really really like them.  And we made an agreement a long time ago that we would look out for one another.  In fact, there have been multiple times that one of them has walked over on a day when I took vacation and was working in the backyard 'just to make sure everything was okay' since they didn't expect me to be home.  I know that her 90 year old mother is home all day and if someone were to break in while she was there, I would do whatever it took to make sure she wasn't hurt.  They are good people and I couldn't live with myself knowing that either of them were hurt because I stood in my house on the phone with the cops while someone was potentially hurting them.  But that's taking this out of context.  I have no idea what Joe Horn's relationship was with his neighbors.  Just wanted to throw that out there.