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**mistahoo** · 06-12-2013, 04:17 PM

You might have regular sag and not dwarf sag. Dwarf sag under optimal conditions won't get tall.

**wesleh** · 06-12-2013, 04:45 PM

It was labeled as dwarf sag when I purchased it. It was under low lighting at the time of purchase, so maybe that caused it to grow tall? Doesn't matter, they will be coming out soon.

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**wesleh** · 06-12-2013, 04:48 PM

Dang it, just notice half my post is missing

EDIT: Fixed!

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**troy tucker** · 06-12-2013, 05:23 PM

I have always liked the carpet look. I think Hairgrass looks good. The tank looks great!

**mistahoo** · 06-12-2013, 05:28 PM

I would either use one 250w heater or two 100w heaters on each side. Two 250w heaters is a bit much. Shrimp will become quick meals even if there's shelter for them. If you really want to try to keep them together, I would let the RCS build up a large colony to about 40+ and then add the discus, but it'll take a few months. Two 54w T5 HO 10k is plenty efficient to grow your plants as most of them are low/med light plants. It may continue to create an algae problem until your plants start to fill in. You can add nerites or o-cats to help control the diatoms.

From your parameters, it looks like your tank is cycled, but not ready for fish. The ammonia spikes is from the ADA Amazonia. I would wait until your ammonia reads 0ppm before adding more fish. Should be anywhere from a few weeks to months. Fluval Biomax won't prevent anything. I don't know what you were told, but biomax is just filter media. It's the same as any other media and has the same function... To host beneficial bacteria (BB). BB colonizes on the media and turns ammonia (very harmful to fish even in low ppm) into nitrites (also very harmful in low ppm) and then into nitrates (not as harmful until it reaches very high ppm). BB also turns ammonium (harmless form of ammonia) into nitrite and then nitrate.

**mistahoo** · 06-12-2013, 05:34 PM

Hairgrass is cool and so are micro swords, but tend to grow very slow submerged. They usually grow faster emersed or if you float them.

I doubt my tank is cycled just from leaving
my filter on my friends cycled tank for 1.5 weeks as well as adding the 5-10g of
cycled water he gave me or could it be? Also on the algae part, how should I go
about it assuming my lighting is okay? Should I still use flourish once a week?
Cut my photoperiod down even more? I'll try to take a pic later when I get home
for everyones input on it.

Leaving your filter on cycled tank for 1.5 weeks is enough to get BB colonizing. Water actually holds little to no BB. You should've gotten some of his substrate or media. Used filter floss is usually great to grab. Put it in your tank and give it a good squeeze and swish in your tank. Some people have good luck fending off diatoms with a lights out period for about a week. I wouldn't recommend it if your plants aren't in good condition. Flourish is just micro ferts, you need macro ferts too if you want your plants to look their best. Once a week is fine. With micro ferts, I like to dose every other day or every three days.

**wesleh** · 06-12-2013, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by troy tucker View Post

I have always liked the carpet look. I think Hairgrass looks good. The tank looks great!

Thanks! In place of hairgrass I'll be using narrow leaf micro swords which IMO looks exactly like hairgrass

Originally posted by mistahoo View Post

I would either use one 250w heater or two 100w heaters on each side. Two 250w heaters is a bit much. Shrimp will become quick meals even if there's shelter for them. If you really want to try to keep them together, I would let the RCS build up a large colony to about 40+ and then add the discus, but it'll take a few months. Two 54w T5 HO 10k is plenty efficient to grow your plants as most of them are low/med light plants. It may continue to create an algae problem until your plants start to fill in. You can add nerites or o-cats to help control the diatoms.

From your parameters, it looks like your tank is cycled, but not ready for fish. The ammonia spikes is from the ADA Amazonia. I would wait until your ammonia reads 0ppm before adding more fish. Should be anywhere from a few weeks to months. Fluval Biomax won't prevent anything. I don't know what you were told, but biomax is just filter media. It's the same as any other media and has the same function... To host beneficial bacteria (BB). BB colonizes on the media and turns ammonia (very harmful to fish even in low ppm) into nitrites (also very harmful in low ppm) and then into nitrates (not as harmful until it reaches very high ppm). BB also turns ammonium (harmless form of ammonia) into nitrite and then nitrate.

Thanks for the advice! I'll go add some more nerite snails.

I forgot to mention when my friend added the biomax, it looks like this, link below. Will that grow BB on it?http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...AvailInUS%2FNo
It was on at the very bottom of the filter next to the carbon.

I additionally added this biomax http://www.petco.com/product/102413/...ter-Media.aspx
"Biomax helps reduce ammonia and nitrite. Plus, the rings allow ideal water
movement throughout the media, to ensure optimal contact time for efficient
biological filtration."
That was what I was going by. It was added to the top layer ontop of the sponge and also at the very bottom where the carbon media sits. Carbon media was changed out a week or so ago and also removed some (not all) of the other biomax that was originally there and replaced it with some of the new biomax I bought. I also got a couple of gallons out of my tank to give the sponge a quick wash hopeing this method will ensure I dont kill any BB.

I was expecting a really high spike like 8.0ppm of ammonia. Didn't think it only go up to 2.0. Good to know I am almost there, but I still have yet to see my nitrite spike yet. Still at 0ppm.

Originally posted by mistahoo View Post

Hairgrass is cool and so are micro swords, but tend to grow very slow submerged. They usually grow faster emersed or if you float them.

Leaving your filter on cycled tank for 1.5 weeks is enough to get BB colonizing. Water actually holds little to no BB. You should've gotten some of his substrate or media. Used filter floss is usually great to grab. Put it in your tank and give it a good squeeze and swish in your tank. Some people have good luck fending off diatoms with a lights out period for about a week. I wouldn't recommend it if your plants aren't in good condition. Flourish is just micro ferts, you need macro ferts too if you want your plants to look their best. Once a week is fine. With micro ferts, I like to dose every other day or every three days.

Thats good to know that I already have some BB! Do you think some of your root tabs will cover the macro part? Also do you think I could aviod adding nitrogen since my nirate is already 10-20ppm?

**mistahoo** · 06-12-2013, 06:21 PM

Originally posted by wesleh View Post

I forgot to mention when my friend added the biomax, it looks like this, link below. Will that grow BB on it?http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...AvailInUS%2FNo
It was on at the very bottom of the filter next to the carbon.

Basically ceramic rings. Does the same thing. Normally you want that before your biomax as a prefilter, but it'll work anywhere it's placed.

I additiontally added this biomax http://www.petco.com/product/102413/...ter-Media.aspx
"Biomax helps reduce ammonia and nitrite. Plus, the rings allow ideal water
movement throughout the media, to ensure optimal contact time for efficient
biological filtration."
That was what I was going by. It was added to the top layer ontop of the sponge and also at the very bottom where the carbon media sits. Carbon media was changed out a week or so ago and also removed some (not all) of the other biomax that was originally there and replaced it with some of the new biomax I bought. I also got a couple of gallons out of my tank to give the sponge a quick wash hopeing this method will ensure I dont kill any BB.

It's just to lure people in to buy it. In reality, all media does is host BB. BB is what actually reduces the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. I've been using plastic pot scrubbers for media and it works just as well. It's much cheaper too. $1 for 6. I loaded my canisters with this stuff. Washing the sponge in tank water is a good idea. I normally don't wash it in tank water and just tap because more of the BB is in the media and substrate.

I really was expecting a really high spike like 8.0ppm of ammonia. Didn't think it only go up to 2.0. Good to know I am almost there, but I still have yet to see my nitrite spike yet. Still at 0ppm.

8.0ppm is a bit exaggerated. You'd hit that number if you didn't have your filter on a cycled tank. A good indicator that will let you know your tank is cycled is when you have 0 ammonia 0 nitrite and X nitrate (x being whatever it's at). You're getting ammonia readings because of the ADA Amazonia

Thats good to know that I already have some BB! Do you think some of your root tabs will cover the macro part? Also do you think I could aviod adding nitrogen since my nirate is already 10-20ppm?

Root tabs are supplemental fertilizers. Mine has macro and micro ferts. I listed them all on the for sale thread. You want to continue water column dosing for optimal growth and coloration. With 10-20ppm you won't have to dose N or cut back dosing. When your plants start to fill in, 10-20ppm will go down to 0ppm quickly.

replies are in red above

**suicune** · 06-12-2013, 07:05 PM

nice tank... I'm also a planted tank/carpet person. I have javamoss carpet with some success. Just a heads up, as many people with planted tank and I have talked about the same problem regarding nutrient. At one point, when the plant mass in your tank settles, they will eat every trace of Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate in your tank. Many of us struggle to drive that Nitrate reading up because sooner or later the absent of Nitrate will cause problems like algae bloom. You must be very careful with nutrient and keep watching that Nitrate reading. Root tabs and water column dosing is a must. I like Excel too.

**wesleh** · 06-12-2013, 07:54 PM

Originally posted by mistahoo View Post

replies are in red above

I was hoping I could get away with it. I'll look into getting some dry macros. I still plan on picking up some of your root tabs though! Thanks again for your help.

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**wesleh** · 06-12-2013, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by suicune View Post

nice tank... I'm also a planted tank/carpet person. I have javamoss carpet with some success. Just a heads up, as many people with planted tank and I have talked about the same problem regarding nutrient. At one point, when the plant mass in your tank settles, they will eat every trace of Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate in your tank. Many of us struggle to drive that Nitrate reading up because sooner or later the absent of Nitrate will cause problems like algae bloom. You must be very careful with nutrient and keep watching that Nitrate reading. Root tabs and water column dosing is a must. I like Excel too.

Thanks! I was actually thinking of doing that as well but with weeping moss. Could you possibly send me some pics on here or through PM? I was going to use excel until I read that it can harm my vals.

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**wesleh** · 06-12-2013, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by mistahoo View Post

If you really want to try to keep them together, I would let the RCS build up a large colony to about 40+ and then add the discus, but it'll take a few months.

Thats what I was thinking as well. I was going to start with a large quantity about 2-3 dozens of amano and cherries and just let the cherries establish a colony.

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**suicune** · 06-12-2013, 08:53 PM

131329_3282774326868_1381559224_o.jpg photo(6).jpg

Now the first picture is from my tank 2 months ago, the 2nd is a week ago. The problem with carpeting is that when your carpet get too thick, fish may get trapped between the glass and the carpet. Which is why I ended up ripping off the edge of the carpet like in the 2nd pictures. Pruning can be a hassle but with Java Moss, all I do is ripping trunks out from the carpet. This is also a low - medium light carpet/tank. At first I thought I can get away with dosing, but that's not the case. You can get away with CO2 by using excel but dosing nutrient is a must. Some of the more experience people told me to start dosing Nitrogen when the plants start consuming all the Nitrogen in the tank. Any planted tank will reach this point, I use root tabs and flourish, but you'll need Nitrogen. Another way is purposely overfeed or overstock the tank. In my experience, it can cause even more troubles. Even then, that doesn't guarantee that your overstocked tank will provide the plants enough Nitrogen. Then again, my tank has some nutrient hungry plants like the floaters and Wisteria. The thick Java moss carpet also consumes a lot.

Attached Files

57460_3282774846881_198825438_o.jpg (70.8 KB, 71 views)

**wesleh** · 06-12-2013, 08:58 PM

Originally posted by suicune View Post

[ATTACH=CONFIG]19961[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]19962[/ATTACH]

Now the first picture is from my tank 2 months ago, the 2nd is a week ago. The problem with carpeting is that when your carpet get too thick, fish may get trapped between the glass and the carpet. Which is why I ended up ripping off the edge of the carpet like in the 2nd pictures. Pruning can be a hassle but with Java Moss, all I do is ripping trunks out from the carpet. This is also a low - medium light carpet/tank. At first I thought I can get away with dosing, but that's not the case. You can get away with CO2 by using excel but dosing nutrient is a must. Some of the more experience people told me to start dosing Nitrogen when the plants start consuming all the Nitrogen in the tank. Any planted tank will reach this point, I use root tabs and flourish, but you'll need Nitrogen. Another way is purposely overfeed or overstock the tank. In my experience, it can cause even more troubles. Even then, that doesn't guarantee that your overstocked tank will provide the plants enough Nitrogen. Then again, my tank has some nutrient hungry plants like the floaters and Wisteria. The thick Java moss carpet also consumes a lot.

That looks really nice! I dig it! What kind of plant is that in your first pic that look like really thin grass?

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