Keeping Church and State Seperate...

[stevenallenbarnard]

I guess the art of the metaphor is just lost on some people

[ImaGuyGeek]

No, the peanut butter analogy was lost on me as well.

It's Lost finale night so I'm not getting into this too much now but IMIGHT made a very logical and insightful post. Thank you for that.

What is most troubling to me (and I will elaborate more later) is that there are a vocal minority of people who have been heard and expect their opinion to be considered as fact.

Teaching the religious beliefs of the Founding Fathers in public schoos is very different than turning public schools into perochial schools. Teaching Evolution as a theory (which it is) is not forcing Christianity on students.

The intolerance of the left towards any mention of Christianity is abhorrent. For those with such strong opinions about the teaching of factual History and Science I would suggest a good long look in the mirror. What are you affraid of? Or better yet, what are you running from that makes you so scared to acknowledge reality and the truth. I can't imagine being so tainted that I would desperately deny the truth to suit my own distorted opinion of the world then try to force my warped version of reality on others.

Seek the truth always, the truth will set you free.

[Nickintex]

Or better yet, what are you running from that makes you so scared to acknowledge reality and the truth. I can't imagine being so tainted that I would desperately deny the truth to suit my own distorted opinion of the world then try to force my warped version of reality on others.

Seek the truth always, the truth will set you free.

As mortal human beings, I don't think we will ever KNOW 100% "The Truth". Which is why I like the idea of "theory/possibility". One group's perception of "The Truth" will not be the universal perception of "The Truth".

[ImaGuyGeek]

This explains a lot. So your a Narcissistic Nihilist. You ascribe to no known Value system or Moral/Ethical code other than what you define as you go? So a little God complex (you are capable of defining morality for yourself and judge based upon your personal code) mixed with rejection and condemnation of well documented facts by deeming them relative.

As mortal human beings, I don't think we will ever KNOW 100% "The Truth". Which is why I like the idea of "theory/possibility". One group's perception of "The Truth" will not be the universal perception of "The Truth".

I know that there is 100% truth in the fact that all documentation proves that the Founding Fathers were Christians.

But based upon your comments I should assume that just because you have made it very clear that you are Gay and comfortable with who you are, this is only your perception of "The Truth" and is not actually 100% "The Truth" but in fact is simply one theory/possibility. Your statements now lead me to believe that you may not be Gay and in fact may not be comfortable with it if you are Gay because there is no truth whether it's the Founding Fathers proclaiming their Christian beliefs or you announcing your love of another man. Or is this more of the "Just make it up as you go" reality you create and the rest of us need to just wait for you to enlighten us with the next chapter what we should believe as the true reality.

This all said, don't get your feelings hurt. I am simply trying to understand how there are no 100% truths but you want people to believe the truths you provide. There are way too many inconsistencies for me to get my head around what it is you are saying.

[ImaGuyGeek]

Again Nick, I'm not attacking you. You are a dear friend. I just can't get my head around what you're saying. It doesn't make sense and I would love for you to help me and the rest of us on this thread to understand.

[geoff_tropheus]

IMIGHT, and all of us reall..., hey just a reminder...this is a sub forum of the lounge that is not moderated and it is very unorthodox compared to the other forums of this site. It is a no hold barred type of forum, where ramblings are what they are and the bullets are made of spit balls so to speak, might sting a little but no offense is taken. They are not to be even be discussed in other forums or in real life.

[Darbex]

By the way IMIGHT, what you will learn from the site is many of the regulars will go off topic a lot some by accident some on purpose but its all fun IMO.

[myjohnson]

im just looking for answers to questions of which you seem to have no intelligent /worth while answer,

First, did you even ask a question in post 141? Only question you seem to ask is in post 144, "creamy or crunchy ?". From me reading your first post, it looks like you were saying, "Hey look at me. I believe in so and so." Which is fine but don't ask for answers when you weren't clearly asking a question. Second, NICK only "seems to have no intelligence" b/c you couldn't comprehend NICK's artistic use of the English language. Which I actually found to be very interesting.

which leads me to my next question,why did you even post if you have nothing of value to add to this discussion? Is this the sort of post/s i can expect from a moderator of this site?

I appears to me that NICK was trying to make a point but you didn't catch the metaphors. Maybe a sight translation might help. Please review what NICK posted and the changes in red.

Ok. Well I certainly do not believe that a religious group that worships GOD really has any place in trying to tell us whether we should have Christianity being tough to us during school. I mean some people do not believe in GOD and would rather believe in Buddha or Mohammad. Who do these Bible thumping worshiping zealots think they are trying to tell our kids what to worship in school? I believe in equality to those who believe in GOD vs those who believe in Buddha or Mohammad. I'm sorry if I offended any of you devoted catholic out there, but that is how I feel in this day and age. I was raised with catholic beliefs, don't get me wrong, but over time, I just started liking the Islamic faith. Is that a crime? I do for the record am still an agnostic, if that makes you feel better!

[fishlady]

isn't "religion" what one interprets it's roots to be?..if your parents were a certain religion we as young children were brought up around "their" beliefs...and as we grew up and our instictive behaviors led us to go the path of what we "felt" was the right path for us as individuals..."history" for instance being taught in our schools is as common as "pockets"....we are all going to be left in the end to make our own interpretations of what we are told,taught, or shown.....as far as "teaching" religion in schools....it should always be diversified to include all religious sects in order for the attendees in the class to make an informative decision if they "believe" or not....there should be no reason why this can't be included in the curriculum....and it surely wouldn't hurt anyone to have a "prayer" included in a daily activity whether it be "church...or state" related activities.
I myself belived in "God", "Jesus" and the belief of "hope".....for in all actualitly that's all we can do at this point in life is "HOPE" that things work well in our lives and that we can "GRAB THE HAPPY"....
But for the sake of saying what we belive in on this thread....I don't belive in organized Religion....my personal relationship with God, Jehovah, Ahla, Supreme Being.......is just that..."personal"....
I do hope and i repeat...HOPE....that all of my friends, family, and just everyone in general has a happy life....there is enough sadness in our daily existance...and that the fights of "good and evil" stay far away from your lives.......

[IMIGHT]

I appears to me that NICK was trying to make a point but you didn't catch the metaphors. Maybe a sight translation might help. Please review what NICK posted and the changes in red.

I apologize, i didnt mean to offend anyone. You have a good point myjohnson. Sometimes i ramble on without actually thinking things through , again i apologize to you and especially Nick for my comment.

[ImaGuyGeek]

Point 1

I believe this debate is indicative of the debate on a national level. The fact of the matter is, we keep talking past each other.

There is an ideological difference in the opposing sides of this debate and I believe it breaks down like this. There are people who believe that if we teach the factual history of the founding of The United States on Christian principals and beliefs we are in some way forcing Christianity on students as core beliefs and values. Then there are those of us (I say us because I fall into this category) that want to learn and teach the factual history and believe it is nothing more than learning.


Example:
I took Marine Biology in public High school, I am not a Marine Biologist as a result.
I took Psychology in public High school, I am not a Psychologist as a result.

In other words, there is a huge difference between TEACHING and FORCING THE PRACTICE of the Christian principals on which our country was founded.

I don’t believe anyone is arguing that our public schools or government should force anyone to PRACTICE Christianity and this is reinforced by the First Amendment to the US Constitution.

[jeebus]

Teach the facts. Its amazing how that can be so skewed. Sad when politics get their fat stubby hands into education.

[ImaGuyGeek]

Point 2

It is a point of FACT that the United States of America was founded by Christians on Christian principals.

This is very well documented and the fact is that while United States of America was founded by Christians on Christian principals our Founding Fathers were insightful, tolerant and fair with respect to other religions as is clear from the First Amendment to the Constitution.

This said, it doesn’t matter how much someone wishes upon a star, or how much someone wants to rewrite history, or how much people cry about it, this FACT is not going to change. There is nothing unfair or intolerant about this, it “Just is”.

There is no ability to teach about the founding of the USA and include the any other religion as an influence (or make it equal or fair) because there were no Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim or Wicken involved in the forming of our great nation. No person of another faith was a signatory of the Declaration of Independence or the US Constitution. This is not intolerant or unfair, it is simply the FACT.

[ImaGuyGeek]

Point 3

There are absolute truths. This is not relative.

Absolute Truth 1. The men who wrote, signed and enacted the documents that the United States was founded on were white.
Absolute Truth 2. The men who wrote, signed and enacted the documents that the United States was founded on proclaimed their Christianity in their own writings.
Absolute Truth 3. Teaching someone about Christianity does NOT make them a Christian.
Absolute Truth 4. Scientifically, Evolution and Intelligent Design are Theories with regard to the origin of man and neither has been proven or disproven at this point.

And so on and so on…

It does not matter how much you cry about it, it does not matter how much you dislike it, it doesn’t matter if you think it’s “unfair”, and it doesn’t even matter if you were picked on as a kid or if your parents and your church made you feel bad. These truths are not going to change because of these reasons.

If a person can’t accept reality and the absolute truths in life, then one can only assume that person is delusional or lives in a fantasy of sorts. I can only conclude that if it is delusion, then this is a loss of touch with reality and this brings into question where the lines are blurred between what is real and what is not. If fantasy is the answer, I can only conclude that there is an inability to function within the constraints of societal reality thus manifesting in an alternate reality created as a coping mechanism. Both of these raise the issue of ones ability to coexist peacefully with others in society. If someone can make their own reality and justify in their own mind that there are no absolute truths, where does the line get drawn and by who?

[Nickintex]

The truth is, I'm finding this conversation tiresome.